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Seçkin Anıl Ünlü

Private/Public Unread Bookmarks for Research - 401 views

bookmark research private public group unread suggestion boolean

started by Seçkin Anıl Ünlü on 09 Nov 08
  • Seçkin Anıl Ünlü
     
    Could you provide a feature lets people to categorize/tag (not interfering with the other "real" bookmarks of them) bookmarks (generally single pages which we mark as unread)? I think this feature will be so useful for both individuals or groups making "long lasting research" on the web for something (like finding developer tools, themes for sth, papers or articles about sth, etc.), but don't want these bookmarks interfere with the other "real bookmarks" which are collected for later remembering, later searching, general use or note taking. This categorizing can be both private and public (so should be made within groups). For example I or my team make a research about a topic, but we don't want to "save"/bookmark pages as our daily bookmarks, but collect them and read them later. We can use this feature, applying some tags (so categorizing), probably and very likely save these as "unread", but we don't see these bookmarks in our own (unread and normal) bookmarks, only in a special tag/category/group.
  • Joel Liu
     
    1. Bookmarks for remembering
    2. Bookmarks for research

    You want bookmarks for research only appear in groups, but not in my bookmarks page, right?

    Could you tell me more about your research needs? We'd like to find some good ways to meet them.

    Thanks.
  • Seçkin Anıl Ünlü
     
    Yes exactly 2 types of bookmarking. I think this will be useful for everyone, because everyone surfing on the net collects some useful sites, articles, resources for a specific aim (not general bookmarking & use), for example I, myself, collect wordpress skins, research articles about school topics (for this we have some groups with my friends and I think bookmarks in these interfere with others in my own bookmarks).

    So there should be "bookmark spaces", it can be implemented as group specific, topic specific or
    tag specific, etc.

    Thank you for your response. Happy diigoings...
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Joel Liu wrote:

    > You want bookmarks for research only appear in groups, but not
    > in my bookmarks page, right?

    As an option, that would be a fine improvement.

    Thanks to Seçkin Anıl Ünlü for expressing the wish!

    I did wonder about the option when I first created a private Diigo group for researchers.

    For a private group, in particular: the current behaviour of Diigolet is risky - no option for bookmarks to default to private. It's too easy for private group members to forget/overlook the necessary click with each and every bookmark. As a consequence, tasks of moderation are excessive; I find myself periodically trawling the personal public bookmarks of private group members to see whether they have accidentally disclosed something that was intended to be private.
  • Joel Liu
     
    How about a separate collecting button on the toolbar? When this button is clicked:
    1. The browser window is in a collecting mode
    2. You can drag and drop any part(picture, video, text chunk) of the web to a container. Therefore, different parts from different pages can be put to a container easily.

    Further more,
    3. You can edit the container and make it more like a research report in diigo site.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    I very much like what Joel describes (if I visualise Joel's UI correctly, it's a good implementation of what I visualised when in another thread I used the word 'floatiness'.)

    However, that (power) feature should IMHO be separate from a more basic desire/requirement to simply:

    * _either_ bookmark for oneself

    * _or_ share with a group

    - at the time of bookmarking.

    If an either/or approach is acceptable, then - if in doubt at time of bookmarking - I would probably tend to share with a group … then later (at group review time) maybe _add_ (less likely move) to my personal collection a few bookmarks that are of greater interest to me than to the group.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/items-from-a-private-group-tag-dictionary-revealed-to-the-public-8496 offers an example of how something supposedly private is found to be public, and not easily corrected.

    My sense is that there should be:

    * an initial focus on the either/or aspect (above)

    * before progressing to potentially more complicated research report structures.

    (Research-oriented reporting is a very fine goal, but I think that we have a greater need for improvements to earlier steps in the workflow.)

    Thanks
    Graham
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Hi, I was ask to post a feature request here by Joel Liu. Not sure if it is exactly what you guys are talking about or not.

    Anyway, my idea was to have a feature that enables bookmarks that are for a specific list or group to be only displayed while actually viewing that said list or group. All bookmarks are put into the bookmarks section at this point and also the list or group. Where as with my idea it would only put the bookmarks into the specific list or group.

    Or there could be a "hide to list/group option" link that while in bookmarks you could send the bookmark to a list or group and it would only display while in that list or group and not in the general bookmark area. Kind of like a folder system where you have files that are always there but, you have to go a level further in to see them. ie. into the list or group.

    I other words I don't want to have double bookmarks and as it stands now I have the same bookmark in the bookmarks section and I also have a duplicate in the list or group. I am not positive but it might actually make 3 if you send it to a list and a group and then the default bookmark section too.

    Thanks,

    Nate
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Natetronn Jackson wrote:

    > I don't want to have double bookmarks and as it stands now I have
    > the same bookmark in the bookmarks section and I also have a
    > duplicate in the list or group.

    That's in tune with my thinking. Seçkin Anıl Ünlü, would you agree?

    > I am not positive but it might actually make 3 if you send it to a
    > list and a group and then the default bookmark section too.

    It does sometimes seem that way.

    Certainly: if annotations to a bookmark are sequential, over a period of time (not broadly coincidental, prior to sharing with a group) then each round of annotations that's shared may generate an e-mail to group members. Most noticeable if the member has opted to receive e-mails immediately.

    It's correct, good that the e-mails alert members to new comments; but if not paying great attention to all comments, readers may

    * gain an impression that bookmarks are duplicated, triplicated or more.

    > a "hide to list/group option" link

    Hmm ... notions of private, shared and public are already sometimes blurred! But I think I know what you mean :)
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Graham Perrin wrote:

    > >a "hide to list/group option" link

    > Hmm ... notions of private, shared and public are already sometimes blurred! But I think I know what you mean :)

    I think private, shared and public are ok. They seem to do what they are supposed to do. I want to be able to hide bookmarks from my self. I am talking about in my own dashboard. So kind of like an archive feature, or a folder feature and I think it should be done when you add a bookmark to a list and or group, it should only be visible while viewing that list or group and no where else in my own dashboard.

    Hope that's more clear if it wasn't already,

    Nate
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Natetronn Jackson wrote (order changed a little by Graham):

    > I want to be able to hide bookmarks from my self.

    +1

    I like your expressions

    * 'dashboard' and 'archive' (both of which are action/workflow-oriented, both positive)

    more than

    * 'private' or 'hide' (both of which are state-oriented, with potentially negative implications/results); I'll return to the word 'hide' towards the end of this message.

    > dashboard.

    Dashboard in Diigo is certainly functional, but too cluttered. In some other forum or conversation (I can't find it at the moment) I suggested that if you have to *scroll* to reach *any* part of a dashboard, then the dash -- the rapidity, the ease of use -- is lost. For the dashboard aspect, I have created a new topic with a cross-reference to this topic.

    > So kind of like an archive feature,

    +1

    Nate, your choice of word - archive - reminds me very neatly of (a) another topic and (b) a conversation that's away from this forum.

    http://www.diigo.com/annotated/2bd628cb87104260d29e1231c3f48c13 for an annotated view of

    > > > cloud on a time line (UI suggestion)

    -- I'll add highlights ASAP.

    Back to this topic:

    > … it should be done when you add a bookmark to a list and or group,
    > it should only be visible while viewing that list or group and no
    > where else …

    +1
    to targeting (either/or) at the time of bookmarking.

    > I think private, shared and public are ok. They seem to do what they
    > are supposed to do.

    Diigo features relating to 'private', 'shared' and 'public' do nearly always work in the ways expressed by Diigo :)

    However: to viewers who are not Diigo users, perceptions may be blurred. (When anonymous/public users see something that's clearly labelled 'private', alarm bells may start to ring. That's a separate topic.)

    Returning briefly to the word 'hide': Diigo aside, I think of how easy it is for people to misunderstand the expression. An infamous example would be, hidden comments in Microsoft Office Word. I could ramble on about this (and about privacy) but I don't want to mess up this topic :)

    > Hope that's more clear if it wasn't already,
    >
    > Nate

    I believe it was clear already :) but the extra conversation has helped me to refine some other thoughts.

    Many thanks
    Graham
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Graham Perrin wrote:

    > Returning briefly to the word 'hide': Diigo aside, I think of how easy it is for people to misunderstand the expression. An infamous example would be, hidden comments in Microsoft Office Word. I could ramble on about this (and about privacy) but I don't want to mess up this topic :)

    Yes I understand what you mean. People might think since they hid a bookmark that it is also private. I think "archive to list" or "archive to group" may be the solution or possibly a synonym of archive would work too, if you know of any.

    With that said I also think if it is sent to a list that it should be archived by default and not added to "bookmarks" section of the dashboard, creating the "double bookmark" phenomena I was referring to in my previous posts.

    Nate
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    > Graham Perrin wrote:

    >in a note: Elsewhere, there's a requirement for public notes (such as this) to gain double/multiple representations.

    I am not sure what other requirement you are talking about though, I kind of look at it like this and will use an example of how my email account works.

    In a yahoo account if I create a new folder, which for this example "folder" will represent a list or group, and then I send an email to that folder it is not displayed in my inbox any longer, where inbox represents the "bookmarks" section of the dashboard. And if i want to access that email again I have to go into that folder.

    I believe there is an option to send bookmarks to a list and a group at the same time, only thing missing is the option to send it also to the "bookmarks" section of the dashboard too. I say again the "option" because as it stand right now it's not an option and I believe it should be.

    If it is sent it to a group then by default it should be public. If it is sent to a list then it should be public or private depending on that specific list's settings.

    If I sent it to my general bookmarks area of my dashboard then it should be public or private depending on my own settings.

    Also I think I should be able to send it simultaneously to any list or any group or to my bookmarks section, and any combination or multiples of those, all at the same time from the pop-up of the bookmark button on the toolbar.

    Nate
  • anonymous
     
    Am I missing something here? Rather than create a whole new feature that tries to address a specialty, one off scenario, why not increase the power of the Diigo filtration system, which would tackle this problem and many other plaguing problems... two birds with one stone kind of approach.

    So, you create a list called "Research" and you place all of your research based bookmarks under this list. You can even create multiple lists if you like, to further organize your research items.

    Diigo would build in Boolean logic into their filtration system and extend the filtration to include lists and not just tags. Preferably create a nicely designed UI, because I think most people despise trying to type in boolean logic into a text field.

    To address the problem laid out by Seçkin, he would enter in "not research" in the filtration system which would show all bookmarks that is not found in the "Research" lists. Another way of stating this is to be able to "hide" certain lists from view. I believe that is what Natetronn was talking about as well.

    As an aside. I love the idea of a scrap book put forth by Joel, that doesn't just collect bookmarks, but collects images, movie files, flash files, text strings. Basically any digital asset found on the web.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    A growing number of good ideas in this topic.

    There's a not uncommon use case in comment 4 above that leads to problems (disclosure of information that should be private), which *may* by remedied by somehow filtering after an initial action.

    However: for my groups of users, a greater priority is for the initial action to _not_ assume co-location and public disclosure of something that's intended for a private group.

    (Critically: Diigolet NEVER defaults to private.)
  • anonymous
     
    Graham, I believe all bookmarks, be it public or private, that are placed within a private list or group are inaccessible to all not privvy to that data, thus by extension making them private.

    This is a bit illogical and counter intuitive on the surface (how can a bookmark be designated public and still be private), but I don't think it creates a violation of privacy, since it errs on the side of caution.

    The logic issue should be rethought., because there is a "confidence" issue about the privacy. I thought the same thing as you did when I was inserting bookmarks into a private list I had. Low confidence in privacy can be just as bad as not actually having the privacy, in my opinion.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    The _group's_ copy of the bookmark is not a concern.

    The _person's_ copy of the bookmark can be troublesome.

    What we tend to find is that a personal copy is created -- irrespective of whether the person requires the multiplication.

    The unintended creation of the personal copy can be complicated, by its publicity.

    The risk of unintented publicity is elevated, by the absence of a Diigolet preference to default to private.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Reading this topic now alongside
    http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/diigo-expressions-share-to-and-add-to-are-debatably-misleading-the-actual-results-are-more-like-duplicate-triplicate-8754 I can see more clearly the duplication that Nate described.

    > … Boolean logic into their filtration system and extend the filtration to include lists and not just tags …

    It's the mixed meanings/interpretations of the word 'share', and the multiplicity of objects/metadata, that leaves me currently unable to visualise such things

    - filtering is a fine idea, I simply can't visualise it without knowing what's to be filtered ;)

    Some Diigo-produced graphics might help.

    Best,
    Graham
  • anonymous
     
    Let say I save:

    www.bookmark_#1.com into my personal list 'Lions' and 'Oz'

    www.bookmark_#2.com into my personal list 'Tigers' and 'Oz'

    www.bookmark_#3.com into my personal list 'Bears' and 'Oz'

    Performing a boolean filtration for the lists:
    Oz NOT Tigers

    Would return bookmark_#1 and bookmark_#3

    Hence, the original individual who posted this thread could insert all of his research bookmarks into a list called 'Research'. Filtering with 'NOT Research' would give him what he was calling his "real" bookmarks.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    > Filtering with 'NOT Research' would give him what he was calling his "real" bookmarks.

    What I need is for bookmarks to appear only in the desired place (not be duplicated or otherwise multiplied) - *without* the need for me or anyone else to filter ;)

    Expressed another way,

    >> don't want these bookmarks interfere

    - I do wish to work without the interference

    - I don't wish to observe the interference then filter it out ;)
  • anonymous
     
    Sorry Graham, I am not understanding you.

    Bookmarks are not being duplicated when they are saved in multiple lists. Its not like a standard "folder" style file management system. One bookmark can belong to hundreds of lists and its still only one bookmark. Where is the multiplicity here? Sorry if I am being dense.

    And if you consider everything under the "My Bookmarks" to be the Real or default location and you want some bookmarks to be excluded so as to not interfere, then you need a system to isolate the bookmarks to be excluded, hence putting them in a list. If you like, all the other bookmarks could go under another list called "Real Bookmarks" and you would just open that list rather than the standard "My Bookmarks" pane.

    I just take exception to developing special processes and features that only address a handful of problems. I prefer a more broad approach (while still maintains intuitiveness--- A MUST). In that way it retains a flexibility to tackle a multitude of problems. Boolean logic in searching and filtering is a must, and is currently lacking in Diigo.
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Scott Allam wrote:

    > Bookmarks are not being duplicated when they are saved in multiple lists. Its not like a standard "folder" style file management system. One bookmark can belong to hundreds of lists and its still only one bookmark. Where is the multiplicity here? Sorry if I am being dense.

    I can not speak for Graham but, when I say duplicates I am talking about the one in the "My Bookmarks" section of the dashboard and then one in a list and or group.

    I feel the "My Bookmarks" section is the issue since all bookmarks go there by default even if you sent it to a list or group.

    > One bookmark can belong to hundreds of lists and its still only one bookmark.

    Of course it's ok to "belong" to more then one list or group and so on and so on. It's the fact that there is not an option or choice for the bookmarks to belong or not belong to "My Bookmarks." It adds a bookmark there even if you directly add it to a list using the toolbar which is one such occasion where the duplication is coming into play. If there is no option then that kind of goes against the whole "My" in "My Bookmarks."

    Nate
  • anonymous
     
    Well I think the intention of "My Bookmarks" is an all encompassing repository for ALL of your bookmarks. To have some included and others not, goes against that grain of how Diigo's product currently works. That is not a defense of how it works, mind you, just a statement of its current design.

    What I would like to see is a Filtration and Sorting Graphical Interface that shows My Bookmarks as a heading with every user defined list underneath of it with a check box. By default, each list would be checked, which shows ALL, i.e. the standard view you are used to seeing. The user would be free to uncheck any of those lists, and then those lists would be hidden from view on the My Documents list.

    I think this is a good middle ground solution to your specific problem, while not creating any additional organizational conventions beyond the Diigo list.

    To make that happen requires the boolean logic I was talking about, but the above is a graphical interface to make that happen rather than some cryptic text entry code, i.e. "NOT research". This graphical interface could be accessed with a simple link called "Advanced filtration" next to the text entry filtration field. These check boxes could be displayed along side other parameters to include Tags and hopefully other metadata in the future as well, i.e. most viewed, date range, flags such as starred, shared bookmark, etc. Sort methods should also be established in this interface to reflow your bookmarks by alpha order, date created (standard view), date last viewed, etc.
  • anonymous
  • Graham Perrin
     
    > Bookmarks are not being duplicated

    Re http://www.diigo.com/annotated/26b7b230543dc1c52a7910dcd2d6df2b I'll await a definitive comment from Diigo …
  • anonymous
     
    Well its easy enough to test yourself.
    1) Insert Bookmark_A into two lists; i.e. List_1 and List_2
    2) Go to List_1 and click the check box next to Bookmark_A
    3) Pull the "More Actions" drop down list at the top and choose 'Edit tags'
    4) Add a new tag to Bookmark_A
    5) Now open List_2 and review Bookmark_A. You will see the new tag inserted into that bookmark

    If they were duplicates than their tag set would be different. They are not.

    Rapid prototype found here:
    http://www.imagicdesign.50gigs.net/Diigo_interface.html
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Apples and oranges, I use groups more often than lists, other people use lists more often than groups, other people may use lists or groups only rarely, different perspectives, different tests :) and in my test the tag sets _are_ different: http://www.diigo.com/annotated/26b7b230543dc1c52a7910dcd2d6df2b

    Peace
    Graham
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Scott Allam wrote:
    > Well I think the intention of "My Bookmarks" is an all encompassing repository for ALL of your bookmarks. To have some included and others not, goes against that grain of how Diigo's product currently works. That is not a defense of how it works, mind you, just a statement of its current design.


    Yes that is how it currently works, your are correct. Though, if there is an option to add to list or group couldn't there be an option to or not to add to "My Bookmarks?" If not then maybe the name should be changed to, as you called it, the "all encompassing repository?" Because that is exactly what it is, a repository and not "My Bookmarks."

    I feel that a "Repository" and "My Bookmarks" should be two different things. Otherwise I will have to create another list called "My Bookmarks" which I don't think I should have to do. I believe that "My bookmarks" should not be a repository and in my case used for general bookmarks that are used on a daily basis. Or any bookmarks for that matter based on what a user feels embraces the whole "My" concept of "My Bookmarks."

    This is just my opinion of the current design and why it should be given another thought.


    >@ Graham Perrin
    It would be nice if in this image:

    http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/949/menuofgroupsdoesnotindiip6.png

    actually had check boxes so you can add the new bookmark to any of the groups or lists that you have chosen like so in this example:

    http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3950/multiplesqt3.jpg
  • Graham Perrin
     
    > … actually had check boxes so you can add the new bookmark to any of
    > the groups or lists that you have chosen like so in this example … 

    Looking good -- thanks. I have cross-referenced from
    http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/group-tag-dictionary-failing-recommended-tags-have-never-appeared-7108#16 to that image and to this part of this topic.

    @ Diigo developers: when you next attend to menus in this area, the other thing (of which Nate's image reminded me) is http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/diigolet-share-to-groups-create-a-group-fails-does-nothing-8774
  • Graham Perrin
     
    @ Scott:

    Thanks for the prototype, I'll revisit this when I have a clearer vision of what's under the hood of Diigo.

    @ all visualisers and developers:

    UIs should ideally cater for users who have scores of lists and scores of groups.

    A temptation might be: basic and advanced modes. Personally, I'm not sure about that. Already, IMHO (too) many modes in Diigo ;)

    FWIW I'd prefer a single mode, non-complicated, a UI that allows _with simplicity_ the future possibility of more advanced use.

    (If you don't begin with a vision of advanced use, then as you bolt on advanced features, the whole caboodle could become clunky and hideously layered for more advanced users.)

    Cheers
    Graham
  • Sean Brady
     
    It has taken me a while to figure this thread out. I think I have a grasp on it now. Sorry for the length of this post.

    As I understand Diigo, all bookmarks I add to my account will be displayed under my My Bookmarks list. I can add a bookmark to a list that I have created to help further organize my bookmarks. I can also share a bookmark to a group.

    Groups and lists are very different. Lists are an organizational structure inside of my account. When I add one of my bookmarks to a list it is displayed as part of that list, but it is still the same bookmark I have in my account. If I change the tags, or description, of this bookmark the changes will be reflected in both the list and My Bookmarks. It is not really a duplicate, it is the same bookmark appearing in two places (much like how bookmarks appear in multiple tag searches).

    If I share a bookmark with a group, either one of my creation or one that i have joined, a separate bookmark is created in that group. Groups are really not a part of a users account like lists are. The manager of a group basically controls a separate little account in Diigo. Since managers can edit tags on bookmarks in their groups a copy of the bookmark is required. If I share a bookmark with a group, and then change a tag in my bookmark list, those changes will not be reflected in the group.

    On the original point of this thread: I would love to see an option to upload a bookmark to only a group (skipping my bookmarks all together). Ma.gnolia did this and it was well received. I do occasionally come across things that I would add to a group, but not really to my Bookmarks.

    On the other hand, the ability to add something to a list and not My Bookmarks makes no sense to me at all. Lists are simply a organizational structure in my bookmarks. I want every item on my lists to appear in my main set of bookmarks.

    I think a NOT filter would be a great benefit, but am not sure a NOT in list would be all that helpful to me. I would love to see a NOT search for tags. The best implementation of this type of searching is Remember the Milk. They do a great job of searching, and allowing those searches to be saved an reused.

    I cannot personally see an issue where I would have a private group where bookmarks going into the group would need to be private as well. Since the annotations can be restricted to a group. I don't see a need to force bookmarks saved to a private group to be made private. As I mentioned, group bookmarks are copies and that is really how it should stay.

    In summary, I am +1 to add only to a group and +1 for Boolean tags. They rest seems to work fine and make sense for me.

    Hope it makes some sense.
  • anonymous
     
    Sean, I think you nailed it!!! That is my understanding as well.

    One additional comment about boolean logic. I think boolean logic is extremely powerful, but can also be extremely tedious and cryptic to create. Hence, why I was exploring a graphical interface to go along with that.

    You mentioned that you didn't think a boolean logic would be all that helpful for you with lists. The great thing about the way this discussion thread is shaping up is that you can opt out of such a scenario with no adverse consequence. If you want to use the "My Bookmarks" as an all inclusive repository you can still do that. If others want their "My Bookmarks" to exclude some lists of bookmarks, they can choose to do that too. Its flexible, consistent no matter which camp you're in and doesn't require additional features to address them.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Sean Brady wrote:

    > Sorry for the length of this post.

    Thank you (all) for the length of your posts!

    > On the original point of this thread: I would love to see an option
    > to upload a bookmark to only a group (skipping my bookmarks all
    > together).

    +1

    > Ma.gnolia did this and it was well received. I do occasionally come
    > across things that I would add to a group, but not really to my
    > Bookmarks.

    I surprise myself by more often adding to groups, and my trend is likely to increase.

    > the ability to add something to a list and not My Bookmarks makes no
    > sense to me at all.

    I'll continue to think (long and quietly) about that.
    http://www.diigo.com/annotated/64d80c8411d2d50860cf2438106776bf is an itch that I must scratch, and whilst I'd selfishly love the feature (the looping of WebSlides) to be introduced soon, group approaches to best use thereof can wait. Can evolve.

    > I cannot personally see an issue where I would have a private group
    > where bookmarks going into the group would need to be private as
    > well.

    To clarify (just one point) (from my own POV):

    * with Diigo as is, my group members often _require_ privacy at time of bookmarking

    * with a future Diigo as ~we wish it to be, the privacy of a group and the non-multiplicity of the bookmark should suffice.

    In other words, I agree. At least, I think I do. LOL.

    > Hope it makes some sense.

    Between us all, we're getting there!

    > In summary, I am +1 to add only to a group and +1 for Boolean tags.

    I'm deferring my own thoughts about Boolean logic. Not because I disagree with any of it, simply because my brain is turning to blancmange and Some Things Must Wait.

    Yes, that's it. I'll update my profile photo with a plate of blancmange.

    Best,
    Graham
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    Well I am not sure if I can add anything more to the post but before I go I would like to ask this:

    Can we change the name of "My Bookmarks" to "Bookmark Repository"? Because although I completely understand why it is there and how it works. I still feel it is missing that one item that makes it mine. Which is the option or choice to use it as I wish, which in my case is not as a repository. The "My" in "My Bookmarks" can mean allot of different things to the user. Where as Repository is more definite.

    Thanks,

    Nate
  • anonymous
     
    Natetronn, well words and titles are important. It is very telling that we as proficient Diigo users have varying perceptions of what a grouping like "My Bookmarks" can mean. That tells me that there is some clarity of design required, because if we are confused, then how about new comers to Diigo.

    It is easy to see where this confusion might come from by using our computers as a model; Windows based computers anyway. Pulling up the "My Computer" location is a catch all repository for everything on our computer and "My Documents" is a substantial subset of items deemed relevant by the user. One might argue, why bookmark a web page if you didn't deem it important, but everyone works in their own way and there are definitely varying degrees of importance and uses to bookmarks. Like inserting fingers in between pages of a book compared to dog earing the corner of the page. Sometimes bookmarks are just temporary little tics of interest and you do not want them muddying up your "real" bookmarks. Something transitory, if you will.

    Bookmark repository would work. Something a bit simpler and more user friendly might work too, like "Bookmark Library" or "Bookmark Warehouse". Open to suggestions here :-)

    What makes that "Library" something that you can truly call your own is how it is viewed. The default would be "View: All Bookmarks", which Diigo already has covered. They cover the various views with tabs. I believe it important to be able to tweak those views through some kind of interface to customize that view to your liking. Have the ability to save those views and call them up by name would go a long way to the personalization that we all seek to achieve. For example: you might have a view called "Natetronn's personal bookmarks" that show all bookmarks, excluding items in lists "goofy", "reference", "research later", belonging to Groups "Edutalk" and "My Hobby" and sorted in view of "Date added".

    Now those are a lot of parameters, but you can see very quickly the power of being able to create a stream of parameters that can be called up easily with the click of a single tab. The graphical interface for a user to define those parameters would make or break such an idea, but I think it worth pursuing.
  • Sean Brady
     
    Using the tab example really makes me think of Remember the Milk. The search is very nicely done and consistent. In addition, you can also save any search that is then displayed as a tab. Obviously, tasks are a slightly different paradigm, but the concept would work well. It matches what Scott is talking about very closely.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    http://www.diigo.com/tools/api as my first point of reference:

    API for bookmarks
    - exists.

    API for groups
    - awaited.

    API for lists
    - awaited.

    Now I'm paraphrasing the statements offered by Diigo ;) but the principle that I allow to guide me is this: whether the APIs are existing, versioned, coming soon, or unscheduled, they are clearly subject to:

    * change
    * development
    * possible deprecation

    and so (to avoid disappointment, at least for myself) I'm setting no perceptions in stone.

    Parallel to the six-person discussion in this one topic, Diigo have the multi-focus multi-group brainstorms that they recently initiated and I'm happy for that side of things to take priority :) whilst our thoughts tick over...
  • anonymous
     
    Graham Perrin wrote:

    > I'm happy for that side of things to take priority :) whilst our thoughts tick over...

    Most certainly and I don't think anyone here is telling Diigo how to develop their product, however discussions like this are what developers seek and need the most, i.e. input and conflicts from the user base. It is the best way for them to know if they are on the right track or not. While developing the software for my Bytesize Systems product I had to keep telling myself that I wasn't designing the product for my own personal use. It would be hard to generate a substantial market if I was the only user. That kept me after trying to get the product in front of others and seeking their feedback. It was hard for me not to be defensive about it from time to time, but it was exactly what I needed to hear and when I needed to hear it.
  • Natetronn Jackson
     
    I know I said I wouldn't be adding much more to this topic though, I had one other question if you guys do not mind:

    If I have a bunch of bookmarks that have been added to "My Bookmarks" yet, not to any list or group and later I choose to go through them, like a spring cleaning of sorts, and add them to some new lists, then in the future when I need to do some more organizing am I going to have to go back through all of these same bookmarks again? Or is there another way that I am not thinking of?

    I ask because I do not always have a list created and ready to go for each bookmark so aprox. 25% of the time they go into "My Bookmarks" unlisted or ungrouped until I can get back to them for organization. Sometimes these bookmarks are unread but, sometimes they are not.

    A simple question to what I am trying to say/ask:

    Is there or could there be an unlisted and or ungrouped filter?
  • anonymous
     
    Nate says:
    >
    > Is there or could there be an unlisted and or ungrouped filter?

    Most excellent idea Nate!!! Regrettably there is not a way to do that with Diigo at this time, but I like your way of thinking. Lets hope that Diigo incorporates high end filter and sorting controls in coming versions.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    We're way off-topic :) but here goes ... and please, read to the end of this message before clicking anything (if my message gets across, the urge to click should pass):

    > a spring cleaning of sorts

    If you're in a mood to spring clean your own collection:
    http://www.diigo.com/tag/no_tag | Mine | Last
    or
    Diigo | Home | My Bookmarks | Untagged | Last

    http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/bookmark/tag/no_tag
    might be group spring cleaning, if any member is inclined. However: I don't encourage this exercise! The presence/absence of tags (without apology, I can't be bothered to tag) does not signify quality/inferority of content.

    Of far greater use to me:
    http://www.diigo.com/tag/no_tag | Mine | Annotated
    then change the tail of the URL
    from 1
    to 0

    The result is nearly, not perfectly, items that lack annotation.

    What's going on here?

    Simple. I have spent too much time over-focusing on aspects of Diigo that require improvement. Too much time theorising.

    I have spent WAY too little time appreciating the existing features of Diigo, experimenting and having fun.

    As a child: I dismantled toys and electrical equipment, poked knitting needles in wall sockets. I lived to tell the tale (but at times, my poor mother's nerves were tattered).

    Now: I change a 1 to a zero. I discover hidden potential in Diigo (and my mother's nerves are spared :).

    > If … not to any … and later I choose to go through them … and add …
    > some new … then in the future when I need … some more organizing …
    > go back through all of these same … again?

    > … do not always have … ready to go for each … aprox. 25% … time …
    > unlisted or ungrouped until … back to … organization. Sometimes …
    > unread … sometimes … not.

    > is there another way that I am not thinking of?

    Another way: don't bother!

    Seriously, don't over-focus on lists and groups.

    My motto is: I will not waste time organising a personal organiser.

    (iPhones are great, but life is absolutely fine without one.)

    There are literally thousands of online/offline utilities and services that allow us to organise:

    * to create lists
    * to group things
    * to communicate as one-to-many
    * to communicate many-to-many.

    The beauty, the distinction of Diigo is:

    * highlighting
    * sticky notes
    * comments.

    To me: the value -- and it's GREAT value -- arises from the words that people write.

    If we're not writing the words ourselves (sticky notes and comments), we're highlighting the words of others that have most meaning to us.

    It's like: the semantic web, but better.

    In the ongoing quest for a semantic web: experts develop XML, argue, theorise, and weave such things into infrastructures. (We're getting there, but slowly. Definitely a separate topic.)

    Here in Diigo: we get a semantic web for free, and it's we humans with social skills and thought processes that add or highlight the meanings of things.

    Blah, blah, blah!

    Happy thanksgiving!

    (Is it still thanksgiving? I wouldn't know. Don't have a personal organiser ;)

    Incidentally, I'm not stressing about my 100+ items that lack tags and annotations.

    When I use the main Diigo search box to find something, it's found. Cheers, Diigo!
  • anonymous
     
    > We're way off-topic :)

    The original topic was about segregating bookmarks to better organize them. The discussion thread has traveled through to lists and groups, the way Diigo handles division of bookmarks. Then we started discussing good practices with lists/groups, some recognized problems with the current lists/groups data structure and finally somethings that could be improved to get more out of lists/groups.

    It sounds like we are on topic to me.

    > The beauty, the distinction of Diigo is:
    >
    > * highlighting
    > * sticky notes
    > * comments.

    I wouldn't disagree with this at all, but it is also a small part of what Diigo is. You have no use for tags, lists or groups, so you have found a method that works for you. Let us let others define their own methods. Diigo is flexible and powerful enough to encapsulate them all.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    >> Private/Public Unread Bookmarks for Research

    That's the topic, and interpretations differ :)

    > segregating bookmarks to better organize them

    Focusing on the opening comment 1 alone: I sensed myself as being in a situation very similar to Seçkin Anıl Ünlü, finding issues with bookmarking in group environments (without reference to Diigo lists), personally I never think of segregating bookmarks.

    > Let us let others define their own methods

    I wasn't aware that I had disallowed any definition.

    I did express happiness at our thoughts continuing to tick over.

    Please don't misunderstand me :)
  • Graham Perrin
     
    > You have no use for tags, lists or groups

    (I do use tags, lists and groups … a misunderstanding, cleared up :)
  • anonymous
     
    > Seçkin Anıl Ünlü, come back! We won't bite!

    Regarding Seçkin's original issue, 44 comments later, he can in fact resolve his issue with the current Diigo product, but it is a bit of a work around. As a practical solution (meaning not elegant using Diigo filtrations or some other mechanism), when he saves a bookmark and shares it with a group, duplicates are made. This has been pointed out by Graham, Sean and others. Lists are different in that regard as no duplicates are made. So Seçkin is free to delete the bookmark from his "My Bookmarks" list and the bookmark at the group will remain.

    His issue is resolved, unfortunately it takes a two step process for every bookmark created. He can streamline the process slightly and tag each bookmark with "Research" and then periodically filter for "Research" and purge them in mass, but it is still a work around. Good luck.
  • Graham Perrin
     
    >> is there another way that I am not thinking of?
    >
    > Another way: don't bother!
    >
    > Seriously, don't over-focus on lists and groups.
    >
    > My motto is: I will not waste time organising a personal organiser.

    My choice of words could have been better. Sorry!

    What I suppose I meant was:

    * if items didn't naturally fall into place at the time of bookmarking, then

    * later, when spring cleaning time comes ... if again you find no natural place for them, and if the continuing untidiness is acceptable, simply leave them until your next round of spring cleaning.

    (I was thinking very metaphorically, and in real life I am as untidy, as bother-free as my bookmarks!)
  • Graham Perrin
     
    Subject: simultaneous saving/sharing to multiple groups
    Subject: simultaneous saving/sharing to multiple lists

    Natetronn Jackson wrote:

    > … bookmark to any of the groups or lists that you have chosen …

    The multiple groups wish is spun off to simultaneous saving/sharing to multiple groups.

    The multiple lists wish is echoed at Adding bookmark simultaneously to multiple lists?.

    Regards
    Graham

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