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Russ Goerend

Tags not "sticking" - 90 views

tags-related tag group share edit add help review 20090924

started by Russ Goerend on 01 Jul 09
  • Russ Goerend
    I've got some tags that aren't transferring from my bookmark to my group. It has happened in a couple cases. I realized it last night when I filtered my bookmarks by a tag and only got a couple links back when I knew I had many things tagged with a certain tag.

    I was running through a group this morning and found that my tags weren't transferring to the group again. I took two screenshoits. The first is a screenshot of the "bookmark" dialog where the tags had already been entered (and seemingly saved).

    This second screenshot is from the group page showing that those tags didn't make it into the saved bookmark:

    Group link:
    Bookmark link:

    Thanks for your help.
  • Graham Perrin
    Group copies of a bookmark are not synced with your personal copy of a bookmark.

    The group copy of your personal bookmark and its metadata (tags, description, page comments, highlights and sticky notes etc.) is, broadly speaking, unchanged after the initial share.

    (I tend to use the word 'copy' more than 'share'; I think that sharing is not the truest description of what happens in this situation.)

    Similarly: if you share a bookmark to two groups, then edit one of the two group copies:

    * neither the other group copy, nor your personal copy in My bookmarks, is updated.

    If from someone else's group copy of a bookmark you save your own copy, then work on your copy and share back to the group, beware:

    * the tags and description in your copy will overwrite what was shared by the original sharer.
  • Russ Goerend
    Interesting. What is your opinion of this behavior, if I may ask, Graham? I think it would work more clearly if, when I chose to share it to a group, a new box for entering tags popped up. I have tried to illustrate this idea in a screenshot:

    There would also, then, be a "duplicate tags" button, that way if I wanted the same tags on each copy, I could just click that button.

    As it is -- unless I'm mistaken -- it seems a) unintuitive that I would have to manually change the tags for each copy of the bookmark and b) tedious to have to do so outside the "Add a Bookmark to Diigo" dialog.
  • Graham Perrin
    > What is your opinion of this behavior, if I may ask, Graham?

    A number of behaviours occur, and I think that their combination/presentation is sometimes weird or misleading.

    If a group owner has created a group tag dictionary, then in some situations you will find all or some of those dictionary entries in a bookmark dialogue.

    I'm very wary of over-populating dialogues. Troubleshooting becomes difficult, etc..

    Defocusing from Diigo: I never liked tags, and I probably never will. That said, Common Tag could be interesting…
  • Graham Perrin
    > I'm very wary of over-populating dialogues.

    Already, the dialogue becomes useless on some types of netbook:

    * Bookmark dialogue of Diigo is too tall for displays with 600 pixels depth
  • Graham Perrin
    If you work through the dialogue from top to bottom, with the group share being the last preparation before you click 'Save', then most of what's entered should be shared to the group.

    Exceptions: in a Diigo group copy of a bookmark, following options do not apply:
    [√] Private
    [√] Unread
    [√] Twitter this!

    The need to re-share to the group should arise only if you make subsequent changes to your personal copy of the bookmark.
  • Graham Perrin
    Probably the best thing is, for you to experiment :)

    There's a sandpit,
  • Russ Goerend

    Thanks, Graham.
  • Graham Perrin
    > * additional highlights and stuck notes will be copied to each of the groups
    > * additional page comments are probably copied in the same way, to each group

    Sorry, I was wrong about some of that.

    For a clearer view/suggestion, please see
    workflow: all annotations: public, private and group comments and notes
  • Graham Perrin
  • Graham Perrin
    Subject: please, do not convert descriptions to personal comments

    Lars Bauer wrote:

    > descriptions … as a … comment

    With respect: I disagree strongly.

    When I write a description, I expect it to be presented as a description.

    When I write a page comment, I expect it to be presented as a page comment.

    When I stick a note to a highlight, I expect it to remain associated with that highlight.

    And so on.

    Reclassification and/or misrepresentation of an author's words can be a very delicate subject.
  • Graham Perrin
    The special meanings of certain fields

    Messing with fields' content can be a very tricky area.

    I was recently reminded that (for example) the Diigo description field has special value for blogging. Since that reminder I haven't given much thought to the bigger pictures (Diigo data and metadata, beyond Diigo) but as a rule of thumb, I'm very wary of subtracting or moving things.
  • Lars Bauer
    Graham Perrin wrote:
    > Subject: please, do not convert descriptions to personal comments
    > Lars Bauer wrote:
    > > descriptions … as a … comment
    > With respect: I disagree strongly.
    > When I write a description, I expect it to be presented as a description.

    Graham, first I was of the same opinion as you are. But then I realized that things are more complicated because diigo handles group bookmarks as copies of users' bookmarks.

    When I save a bookmark to a group that has already been shared to that group, my description and tags will overwrite existing descriptions and tags (and if I don't add any description or tags, existing ones will be deleted).
    I assume that's why diigo automatically duplicates a description as a group comment by that user when I click 'Share to a group'. This way, original descriptions will be retained as a comment even after another group member has added a new description. A disadvantage is, however, that the last description will appear twice in group feeds and blog or e-mail forwardings: once as description, once as comment. This is not ideal either.

    In my view, the only way to get around this is to handle group bookmarks and group content separately:

    1. either by adding another field for group descriptions (as was suggested by Russ for group tags but which could be confusing/undesirable for some users),

    2. or by allowing direct bookmarking to a diigo group (with an option to save a copy to your own bookmarks). Accordingly, one could add another command to the context menu / toolbar: "Bookmark this page to a Diigo group". If the bookmark had already been posted to that group the description and tag fields in the dialog box would then be populated with the existing content which could be amended/modified by subsequent users (same behavior as now for users' bookmarks). Each user could also add comments and highlights. This way, one could also stop duplicating bookmark descriptions as user comments.
    Personally, I would prefer this second solution.
  • Graham Perrin
    We're (nicely) off-topic from the subject Tags not "sticking" but this is a very good discussion, touching upon some core issues. I'll spin off to a separate topic…

    Approaches to working with (or without) multiple copies of a bookmark, sometimes in multiple groups

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