EDF3604 - Social Foundations of Education

I found this quote interesting: "The idea that education can be 'selfish' - a belief largely alien among the upper-middle class - is one poor students often confront, even if it remains unspoken." I think the quote generalizes a bit and, interpreted by a particularly sensitive person, could be seen as trying to induce guilt on the part of rich people (though their guilt MIGHT say something about their unacknowledged privilege). However, I can see that poor students would not want to burden their families by pursuing higher education and thus they get stuck in the cogs of poverty. To close the gap between high and low income students, I don't think we need the privileged to feel guilty for what they have or the underprivileged to feel guilty in asking for easier access to education. Maybe this is an obvious question, but why is college so expensive, anyway? What would really happen if colleges lowered tuition so higher education was actually attainable for a broader group of people? Money isn't the whole issue in why people aren't going to college, but the only argument I've heard in favor of high tuition have been to benefit the already-rich and educated.

In response to Lisa: I definitely understand the meaning of the quote you chose and the inherent guilt that any student might feel because of the high cost of higher education. Building on your point about lowering college tuition, it seems that this would be an ideal goal in a society acknowledging, more and more, the growing need for a degree in the competitive global economy. If America wants to remain competitive, we must produce students capable of handling the issues of today. When more and more jobs require a college education, it seems logical that the necessary training would be more readily accessible, to all groups. Perhaps it is simply the static nature of conflicting politics that prevents change. Or, does the lack of change reflect an attempt to protect the already established class privileges, despite all of the discourse revolving around closing these gaps?

Lisa, I liked that quote when I read the article too. Its very interesting and makes you think. It is true that this remains unspoken and I never thought of education as selfish but when I think about it, it can definitely be seen as such.

Totally agree, Nadia. I don't think we're limited to 4-year liberal arts degrees, either... Vocational/trade schools prepare their students for jobs in the real world too, just in a different way. I'm thinking about that video we watched with the guy who got paid by his company to go to a trade school - that's seriously the best of both worlds! One of my professors says that more than half of the students at UF shouldn't be here because they don't want to be, they weren't wired to study liberal arts. Even though it sounds harsh, I can think of at least a few of my friends who are miserable because they think the only way they'll be happy is to be here and to get this part of their lives over with so they can start getting paid. I'm starting to go off on a tangent here, but I wonder if high school students receive more career counseling, maybe they would actually think about which jobs would give them life satisfaction and not just a 401K... Vocational college could be a great option, but we don't hear about them much! There may be some negative stigma attached to trade schools that make them seem blue collar in a white collar society, and that goes into what you mentioned about the politics of class privilege.

Lisa Lee, In response to your last response, I'm not sure if I understand fully what your professor said. I understand that you're trying to say that students should not be here because they don't want to be, but I don't understand why being wired to study liberal arts would be a requirement for attending a college. I agree that high school students should receive more career counseling but for the most part ( I know my career counselor in high school) did not have that large of an impact on my current professional pursuits. By the time students come to college, they change their minds about what they want to do at least four or five times. Also, often what drives students to go for the 401K is because of their family situation. Whether we would like to be in a financially better position than our parents or our parents are pushing us into that desk job, they often have the largest influence on our initial thoughts of our careers. While vocational college has its merits, I think the main issue with that is that jobs that come from a vocational school are usually less respected and paid less than 4-year college jobs, as you said. Having poor students go into vocational colleges to get less well paid jobs just continues the cycle. I think we should lower tuition though. I honestly don't see why it costs so much.

Krystal, what I got from my professor was that there's a power structure in place that says you must go to a 4-year liberal arts college, you need that "well-rounded" education to be "qualified" for the job market (and thus achieve a certain status in society). But does an electrical engineer need to have 9 credit hours of humanities to be a good engineer? In that way, some professions shouldn't require students to be in a liberal arts program - thus, they "shouldn't be there." From a functionalist/conflict perspective (not saying it's the right perspective, just one way to look at it), those students in poverty are being denied access to higher paying, higher status jobs because they can't afford this type of liberal arts instruction. I don't know how salaries are determined, but I agree that jobs obtained through vocational schools shouldn't be stigmatized in addition to tuition being lowered at liberal arts colleges. About the career counseling, I was just wondering if high school students were more open to vocational schools, they'd take advantage of them. Sure, a student who wants a liberal arts education should be able to receive one and it's a problem that they can't. I'm not suggesting that vocational schools are the second rung, leftover alternatives where we can hide our inner city students, either. But for those students in poverty who give up altogether and don't pursue ANY higher education at all because of the cost, having guidance counselors who suggest this as an option might be helpful - assuming, of course, that they have guidance counselors in the first place.

"Neighborhoods have grown more segregated by class, leaving lower-income students increasingly concentrated in lower-quality schools. And even after accounting for financial aid, the costs of attending a public university have risen 60 percent in the past two decades" Schools get funded through property taxes and because of this low income communities get less money to distribute to local schools as compared to higher income communities with lots of home owners. More home owners leads to more property taxes which gets schools in high income communities more money to contribute to better qualified teachers, better technology, nicer school facilities, etc. The first step to closing the gap between high low income students is allowing schools to provide the same opportunities to all students. This can be done if all schools receive the same amount of money to contribute to student's education. Rather than funding money from property taxes directly to local schools, local governments should collect the money and distribute it evenly among schools in high and low income communities. This way all schools could afford to provide the same learning tools for all students.

In the article, I found the following quote to be very interesting: "With school success and earning prospects ever more entwined, the consequences carry far: education, a force meant to erode class barriers, appears to be fortifying them." I chose this quote because its saddening to see that education, typically a path that people choose to overcome low economic status, is not available for those students who are academically qualified. Low-income students already have to endure enough obstacles in order to reach a point where they are ready for college studies. By not being able to attend school or be successful in school, these students will be the ones taking the low income jobs. This is just a continuation of the widening of the gap between high and low income students. I believe that Emory's financial aid program is a beginning step to minimizing the income gap. If a student's family made less than $50K/ year, then Emory would turn some of the student's loans into grants. Also, there could be a highly recommended push for low-income students to apply for work-study programs. These programs are usually not too strenuous and are flexible to student's schedule. Overall, I do agree with the previous posts that college tuition needs to be decreased drastically. I was speaking with a friend of mine about this topic and he asked me why couldn't college be free like K-12 schooling. I didn't really know how to respond besides "Oh that's not going to happen." I did not know any legitimate reason as to why some college programs could not do this. It just seemed unrealistic for colleges to do this. Any thoughts on this question?

Its hard to say if it was their low socioeconomic status that led them to not graduate or pass some courses in 4 years, or if it was their social group and the people that surrounded themselves. "schools may have also changed in ways that make parental income and education more important". Education could be reformed in public education by making public schools fair and even for all parents. Taking exams like SAT which determine admissions into colleges, it is important to get a good score. Those who can afford the tutors and prep classes will have a better chance of getting in. I think that there has to be other ways to do this and money should not have to be related to achievement.

"It's becoming increasingly unlikely that a low-income student, no matter how intrinsically bright, moves up the socioeconomic ladder," said Sean Reardon, a sociologist at Stanford. "What we're talking about is a threat to the American dream." This quote really stood out to me because it really shows the issues that we are seeing with higher education. These poor, first generation students are going to colleges that they can't afford, not knowing how the process works and how to deal with it. Without any sort of support system, they are setting themselves up for failure. In order to close the gap between high and low income students, schooling should start by being more affordable. Loans and grants should not be as difficult to obtain, and shouldn't be falsified like in this article. I also think that there should be more work-study programs for those students who have to pay their own way through college. There should also be more involvement at the high school level. Guidance counselor's need to be more helpful in preparing students for college. Especially if they are first generation college students, these kids have no idea how college works and that's not really something that you can learn without any help. In this article, one of the professors tried to reach out to the girl, which is awesome, but she wasn't very responsive and I'm concerned that would be the response of most kids who don't know what they're doing and end up failing. No one wants to admit that they failed so it's easier to just ignore it.

"Weekends and summers were devoted to a college-readiness program, where her best friends, Melissa O'Neal and Bianca Gonzalez, shared her drive to "get off the island" - escape the prospect of dead-end lives in luckless Galveston. Melissa, an eighth-grade valedictorian, seethed over her mother's boyfriends and drinking, and Bianca's bubbly innocence hid the trauma of her father's death. They stuck together so much that a tutor called them the "triplets." " This article brought up a lot of good points and had great example stories. This quote stuck out to me because of the influence peers and friend groups can have on an individual. Families have a huge influence on one's well being and their ability to excel in education. They also can be supportive or detrimental. Not that I am saying it is all the families fault if a student fails, but there is a strong influence. Families do the best they can and some circumstances are challenging ,like finances or trauma within a household. No matter what, a family's situations will effect someone, especially the children. But, there is an alternative when people thing in terms of support. Friend groups can be extremely influential. In my experience, this is what was where my sister and I found the most support, specifically in scholastic areas. I can relate to the "triplets' mentioned in this article. I had friends like that. Through all the chaos of one's home front, there can be outside support that can undesirably beneficial. Although the girls did not excel the way I hope hoped they would, this still brings up a good point. Another good point was the pressure of needed finances as adults and outside influences. Now as far as education reform. I see a lot of hope and promise in after school programs. An example of this working in a beneficial way is when a student is suppose to go home alone when the parent or parent is still at work. An option of just staying at school and working on homework would be

Alexa- That quote stood out to me as well. It is an unfortunate aspect of our economic system, since cost is calculated in relation to the economic condition of the society as a whole, while the individuals are expected to satisfy this generalized goal independently. In other words, what a person must pay is dictated by the wealth of people that have nothing to do with that person, while the individual is left to rely only on his/her resources to pay that cost. It is contradictory to say that an individual has no right to another one's resources, while the resources of all others creates what is demanded of that specific individual.

Lisa- That quote stood out to me because some of the friends I graduated high school with didn't attend college because they felt it would be inconsiderate to do so. When I asked a particular friend why he wasn't applying to colleges, he simply said "I couldn't do that to my dad". It was a response that really expanded my view of education, because I hadn't ever thought of the decision to educate oneself as one which negatively affects the family of the individual.

Keri- This quote stood out to me because it was shocking. I think people underestimate privilege all the time. We can't influence the family we are born into, the environment we live in, or the financial situation our caregivers are in. It would be easier if we were all dealt the same hand of cards but it's more complicated than that. These girls were not born into privileged families and the fact that these girls needed to travel out of their town because of its suppressing environment shows this lack or privilege. Future educators should work on ways to level the playing field so all students have an equal opportunity to exceed in their education.

Lisa-- I like this quote. I remember speaking about this during class discussion one day. Basically, it's the idea that for the wealthy or privileged there is no reason to question the education system as it today. Why would they question something that has worked for them so far?

Yes, I agree Lisa. I do not think there is anything positive that can come from the two extreme classes feeling any sense of guilt for their class. The solution has to come out of accepting the facts and moving on. I also agree that college is expensive! Some more than others, of course. Some areas do have no cost tuition colleges. I had a friend that was from Germany and just here for the summer. She did not pay for college. It was free where she lived. She could not understand why we were actually paying for college. Also, why pay for college and not other schooling? This is something we could work on. This system works in some areas. This change could benefit our goal for equality in education.

Gabrilla-Exactly! "Future educators should work on ways to level the playing field so all students have an equal opportunity to exceed in their education." I loved this thought. This is so true. Making the students feel as if they are all equal is essential. The fact is if a student "leaves his baggage at the door" in some way, they open themselves up to an entire new world. The world outside of the classroom could slip away during the day. Equality in the classroom could help everyone do well regardless of their SES. This would also promote a solid foundation and a feeling of community. This would encourage a "we are in this together" mentality, as well. There are several different ways we could change the educational structure so that the SES could matter less in terms of individuals being educated. I think the small differences we could start with could change the bigger picture more than we initially think.

The unfairness is appalling. The low spending looks so attractive but it's the children in their schools that don't get spent on. And the hypocrisy, "In practice, however, when advocates of lower spending get a chance to put their ideas into practice, the burden always seems to fall disproportionately on those very children they claim to hold so dear." And this quote just straight up scared me: "Consider, as a case in point, what's happening in Texas, which more and more seems to be where America's political future happens first". If this is just the beginning, or a taste of where the rest of America is going to end up, then some serious steps need to be taken to prevent it.

This sounds crazy. They're making budget cuts in all the wrong places! I understand that cuts are necessary because of the economy but this is going to have a seriously negative impact on their state. If children are "the future" then theirs isn't looking very bright and I think it would be wise of them to reconsider. Having one of the lowest high school graduation rates, ranking 5th in child poverty, and being below national average health wise does not look very good on their part. Not a very promising future if you ask me!

Coming from another country where the "school district" concept doesn't exist, it is hard for me to understand how students are forced to go to a school that can't provide with what they need/want. For this I don't think that it is a crime for a parent to do anything to offer their kids a better schooling. Although this might not seem fair to some people, I'm sure that if they were in the same situation they will do the same. It could be argued that students could try really hard to be the top student but when they are competing with other top students in top schools...what are their chances?

I liked this article, too. I think it's sad that people tend to distrust male elementary school teachers, like the only reason they would choose to work with children is because they have bad intentions.

I think this is interesting. In this day in age if men want to teach younger children, so be it. As long as they are capable of running the environment and producing a classroom that promotes positive education they should teach. There shouldn't be a social stigma about a male teaching kindergarten. That's ridiculous and rather ignorant.

I completely agree that there shouldn't be a social stigma about male teachers in elementary schools. Men can be just as nurturing and as good as teachers as women. It just makes sense to me that there are so few male teachers because of the low status and low pay aspect. That aspect is still around and prominent in the teaching profession. Men wouldn't want to put themselves into that situation in addition to the negative stereotypes.