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Gary Patton

Andrew Sullivan: Christianity in Crisis - The Daily Beast - 0 views

www.thedailybeast.com/...an-christianity-in-crisis.html

bibliolatry bible religion christianity politics

shared by Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12 - No Cached
  • Not the supernatural claims that, fused with politics and power, gave successive generations wars, inquisitions, pogroms, reformations, and counterreformations
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      I'm not so sure the Bible documantation of Jesus' miracles are responsible for the horrors Mr. Sullivan seems to attribute to them.
  • What does it matter how strictly you proclaim your belief in various doctrines if you do not live as these doctrines demand?
  • And more intensely relevant to our times. Jefferson’s vision of a simpler, purer, apolitical Christianity couldn’t be further from the 21st-century American reality.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Is using Matthew 5:13-16 to justify spending one's time in so-called "social action" really Biblical? Are we wise attempting to get worldly people to obey what they cannot and do what only Jesus Followers are commanded? Does it not seem a waste of time and energy better spent "making disciples" (Matthew 28:18-20) ...one on one (2 Timothy 2:1-2)... God's clearly commanded plan?
  • ...14 more annotations...
  • evangelical Protestants who believe that religion must consume and influence every aspect of public life
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Please note my questions in the e-Sticky Note above in this paragraph.
  • The crisis of Christianity is perhaps best captured in the new meaning of the word “secular.” It once meant belief in separating the spheres of faith and politics; it now means, for many, simply atheism.
  • you’ll find a small room containing an 18th-century Bible whose pages are full of holes. They are carefully razor-cut empty spaces, so this was not an act of vandalism. It was, rather, a project begun by Thomas Jefferson when he was 77 years old.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Some would argue that President Jefferson was the R-E-A-L founder of the current "Jesus Movement" of Bible reductionists. Or a kndred spirit of the "Red Letter Christians".
  • Christianity has been destroyed by politics, priests, and get-rich evangelists. Ignore them, writes Andrew Sullivan, and embrace Him. 
  • Christianity in Crisis
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      "What does it matter how strictly you proclaim your belief in various doctrines if you do not live as these doctrines demand? ", the writer asks. That's about as difficult a question as one can ask a so-called Christian. gfp (2012-04-11)
  • the unilateral prohibition of the pill
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Given the Catholic "Doctrine of Infalibility", "unilateral" is the right word and one all Catholics are expected to obey.
  • The hierarchy was exposed as enabling, and then covering up, an international conspiracy to abuse and rape countless youths and children.
  • Inequality, poverty, even the torture institutionalized by the government after 9/11: these issues attract far less of their public attention.
  • the mainline Protestant churches, which long promoted religious moderation, have rapidly declined in the past 50 years. Evangelical Protestantism has stepped into the vacuum, but it has serious defects of its own.
  • many suburban evangelicals embrace a gospel of prosperity
  • Others defend a rigid biblical literalism
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      If an omnipotent, supernatural God cannot keep His own words to humankind accurate over time, is He really a God that should be worshipped by Mr. Sullivan? There is a great deal of documented proof for the accuracy of the Bible with Scripture documents available from a time when the eye witnesses to what Jesus said and did were alive and active. Does Mr. Sullivan really believe that the first Apostles and early Christians agreed to be tortured and killed, horribly, for lies in forged documents as they were for most of the 270 years after Jesus died? And if you feel the documents were forged after the eye witnesses died, please reflect on my opening question.
  • Still others insist that the earth is merely 6,000 years old—something we now know by the light of reason and science is simply untrue.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Is Mr. Sullivan really calling as witnesses the same science and it's so-called experts at proving their theories by replicating them that hasn't been able to produce one single shred of evidence for its sacrosanct "Theory of Evolution". Is he really criticizing estimates of the earth's age on the basis of Biblical dating by calling geologists as testamentarians who use the dating of fossils by archeologists to date their rocks when those same archeologists often date their fossils from the rock layers in which they are found. Some science that, eh?
  • Evangelical Christians
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      I agree that torture is unBiblical and something a Jesus Follower should NEVER condone to be used under any circumstances ...never mind the proven fact that it is a totsaally unreliable way to get accurate information. However, Jesus isn't yet finished conforming me to His character as well as His likeness any more than He is the people who support this barbarism. But, I have the promise of the loving, living God that He is doing so in His way and His timing documented in Romans 8:28-39! Any so-called Christian who's not seeing him/herself becoming more like Jesus "as time goes by" is probably not one!
  • Jesus never spoke of homosexuality or abortion, and his only remarks on marriage were a condemnation of divorce (now commonplace among American Christians) and forgiveness for adultery.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 11 Apr 12
       
      Jesus doesn't have to speak on every moral issue condemned in the Old Covenant and He did say He had come to fullfill it! Does Mr. Sullivan really see Jesus condoning the homosexual behaviour that is rampant now on TV while He still loves and died for the sin nature and sins of it's practitioners? How can Mr. Sullivan suggest the antiviolent God-man who deplores murder is not appalled by abortion ...let alone the malevolency of "Partial Birth Abortion" that is practised by so-called healers all over Canada and in many U.S. States.
Gary Patton

An Atheist's History of Belief by Matthew Kneale - by Tom Holland, British Historian @H... - 1 views

www.theguardian.com/...-history-belief-matthew-kneale

history religion spirituality christian

shared by Gary Patton on 22 Nov 13 - No Cached
  • Gary Patton on 22 Nov 13
     
    Comments on Scientology and it's beliefs
Gary Patton

The Cloak of Antichrist in Bible Prophecy - 0 views

whenthepiecesfit.org/#.TxL1AEtYeVI.email

Islam islamism bible scripture interpretation antichrist satan

shared by Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12 - No Cached
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 17 Jan 12
       
      Don't miss the outline and my annotations below because this book argues that Satan's favourite disguise when appearing to human beings is in the form of 'religion'. If this be Biblically true, as the author attempts to prove, then organized religion in all it forms, not just Islam, is the REAL enemy that Ephesians 6:12 says every Jesus Follower fights against as his/her most dangerous foe, not people, at http://diigo.com/0jl35">http://diigo.com/0jl35" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://diigo.com/0jl35. (I'd argue if the author is correct, that Islam is our greatest physical adversary but traditional, organized religion of every stripe, including Christian denominations, is our potential, greatest spiritual enemy in the last days i.e., read the Book of Jude. gfp (2012-01-15)
  • He really doesn't carry a pitch fork and have a long red tail and two horns.  Yet, he is a master at disguise.  Got any ideas of his favorite?  Masquerade, that is?  
  • satan is in disguise -- even in the Garden of Eden.  The reason?  Because that is how he appears before humanity.  
  • ...27 more annotations...
  • His best disguise?  Religion.
  • the "bomb throwers" of Islam are not the aberration of true Islam; but rather, they are the actual root.
  • The Bible gives us "identifiers" to be able to locate him.  They are called "antichrist." 
  • Whenever the antichrist identifiers are present, satan is present. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
       
      The author means Satan's influence is present in the form of his diabolical power exercised by his troops, demons. Only Almighty God is everywhere-present, all-powerful and all-knowing according to the Bible.
  • When antichrist is present, satan has left his "fingerprints" behind. 
  • Since its inception in the 7th century AD, Islam has waged holy war, jihad, against anyone who stood in its way. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
       
      Jihad is an Arabic word that describes the peaceful or violent expansion of Islam as "the only way" as stated in the Constitution of the Muslim Brotherhood. This monstrous and multiple-tentacled organization was founded and is headquartered in Egypt. It operates stealth-jihad organizations funded by Saudi Arabian, Wahhabi-sect money in every non-Muslim democracy and other country in the world according to experts in Islamic terrorism like Raymond Ibrahim and Tawfik Hamid. However, most Westerners fear AlQaeda the most. In the statements of all violent Jihadists and their groups directed at European or American audiences, they maintain that the terrorism they inflict on the West is merely reciprocal treatment for decades of Western and Israeli oppression. (The common term used by many American politicians for this is "blowback".) Yet in writings directed to their fellow Muslims, their hatred is presented, not as a reaction to military or political provocation, but as a product of religious obligation. For instance, when addressing Western audiences, Osama bin Laden used to list any number of grievances as motivating his war on the West. These included, among others, from the oppression of the Palestinians to the Western exploitation of women, and even U.S. failure to sign the environmental Kyoto protocol. All these were designed to be intelligible from a Western perspective and mask their real intent using taqiyya, Qur'anic approved "liefare". However never once, according to Raymond Ibrahim, did bin Laden justify Al-Qaeda's attacks on Western targets simply because non-Muslim countries are infidel entities that must be subjugated ...as violent Jihadists read the Qur'an. Indeed, he often initiates his messages to the West by saying, "Reciprocal treatment is part of justice" or "Peace to whoever follows guidance". Regrettably, he means something entirely different from what his Western listeners understand by words such as "peace," "justice," or "guidance." Wes
  • All of these wars are spiritual in nature-- not political.  Islam is one of two world empires that has waged holy war against Jews and Christians. 
  • The Bible calls him, Abaddon, the Hebrew name for "destroyer."  Islam calls him, al-Mahdi, "master of the sword," and the "long awaited one."
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
       
      al-Mahadi or "Twelfth Imam" In Shi'a Islam, al-Mahdi will come at the end of days to bring the world to Islam for Allah. he will arrive in the midst of man-created world chaos or cause it after his arrival. His followers are called "Twelvers". The top government leaders of Iran and the real leaders, the "Mullahs" are Twelvers and based on a secret, recent video they released to their military and others, they believe only chaos will bring him back to earth. Joel Rosenberg, author of "The Twelfth Imam", and others argue they wish to expedite the Madhi's return by raining nuclear chaos on the Middle East i.e., on Israel, thereby creating the necessary ingerdients for his return. Sunni Muslim theology also includes a belief in, plus an eschatological* expectation of, the "Twelfth Imam" or the Mahdi, according to Mr. Rosenberg. * es·cha·tol·o·gy (sk-tl-j) n. 1. The branch of theology that is concerned with the end of the world or of humankind. 2. A belief or a doctrine concerning the ultimate or final things, such as death, the destiny of humanity, the Second Coming, or the Last Judgement.
  • To Christians, he is the last "false prophet, i.e., the Antichrist.  To Shia Islam, he is al-Mahdi. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
       
      Sunni Muslim theology also includes a belief in, plus an eschatological* expectation of, the "Twelfth Imam" or the Mahdi, according to Mr. Rosenberg.
  • The chapters below are not final, but drafts that eventually made their way to final form in the recently published book.
  • Islam, as a religion, somehow survived the death of the one so crucial to its existence.  Against all odds, Islam grew to be a voracious kingdom in an unbelievably short period of time.
  • seven separate periods in Islamic history begin.
  • Think about it.  Ten horns, seven heads, and ten diadems; and, Islam fufills both counts.
  • In the Last Days, Islam's Last Caliphate will arise.  Led by Muhammad al-Mahdi, an Alliance of ten muslim nations or groups will unite. 
  • all Islam will unite under Muhammad al-Mahdi.
  • the "revived Caliphate," will usher in the Last Days.
  • This chapter will reveal another detail of Revelation 17's scarlet beast.  The beast is al-Mahdi; the empire is the Revived (and last) Islamic Caliphate. 
  • Don't think for a moment that "Babylon" identifies this harlot as modern Iraq, and the ancient city of Babylon
  • The harlot is wealthy, and she has made the merchants of the world rich and great from her "wine."
  • What is the one substance that the entire world cannot do without?  The woman?  Find the highest "towers" in the land of Islam and you will find the harlot who has built them. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
       
      The author is VERY knowldgeable about the Christian Bible, Islam and history. His analysis is VERY well developed and suggests "wine" is oil and "the woman" is Saudi Arabia and her predecessors.
  • Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam.  The owner of the world's largest proven oil and gas reserves. 
  • We move to the final stages of the Last Days as an Alliance of nations is prophesied to attack Israel.  The leader of the attack is named in prophetic scripture: "Gog."  He is "prince" of the "land of Magog," and the leader of three "nations" from the land of Magog, "Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." 
  • nations of the Middle East, Asia, and Africa, including Iran, Turkey, Ethiopia, Armenia, and Libya. 
  • This chapter will interpret Russia to be the key nation in this Alliance against Israel, along with Iran as the lead nation from the Middle East.
  • A most important element of this victory is not that the Muslim nations of the world are defeated, but that the Spirit of God is "poured out upon Israel," an event that can only be fulfilled with the return of Jesus Christ, and Israel's acknowledgment of Jesus as Messiah. 
  • The time of tribulation has arrived, a seven year period the Bible describes as a "time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time" (Daniel 12:1). 
  • Satan and his agents will have their way until God extends His sickle and pours out His wrath upon the "sons of disobedience." 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      In his book, "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", Marvin Rosenthal, outlines a powerful, Biblical analysis of the Old and New Covenants regarding when the so-called "Rapture" of Jesus Followers takes place. Mr. Rosenthal concludes from his well-documented, clear, easy-to-understand and graphics-supported analysis that the commonly-believed "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" theological position of most North American Bible teachers is inaccurate and not supported by a careful Biblical analysis. You can read a short, well-done summary of Mr. Rosenthal's thesis by another Bible teacher at http://diigo.com/0mhvg.
  • Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
     
    This book argues that Stan's favourite disguise when appearing to human beings is in the form of 'religion'. If this be Biblically true, as the author attempts to prove, then religion is against what Ephesians 6:12 says every Jesus Follower fights against as his/her most dangerous enemy. gfp (2012-01-15)
Gary Patton

Three Degrees of Separation on Vimeo - 0 views

vimeo.com/952495

bible scripture scripture interpretation evangelism the poor vimeo

shared by Gary Patton on 01 May 12 - No Cached
  • Three Degrees of Separation
  • Gary Patton on 01 May 12
     
    "Khakis, blue jeans, and dungarees graced the stage at this vimeo-taped, public event in San Diego. The generational differences between the three Evangelical leaders seemed obvious. But the helpful, lively, moderator-g, uided conversation ...not debate... reveals the shared beliefs that should motivate all Jesus Followers. During the discussion and Q&A period, the speakers reveal some intriguing observations about the sword vs. and/or complementing the cross in social & political action in the U.S. I believe they all apply to Canada to the degree that our people and societies differ. gfp (2012-05-01)
Gary Patton

Liberal Christian Scholarship ...Redaction Criticism, and Islam (Part 1) - 0 views

aomin.org/...index.php

christianity Islam christians muslims religion bible scripture scripture interpretation

shared by Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12 - No Cached
  • Some Brief Thoughts Regarding Liberal Scholarship, Redaction Criticism, and Islam
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      In this article, Dr. James White, of Alpha & Omega Ministries examines the dangers of "Redaction and Form Criticism" in Christian scholarship (sic) and the refusal by Muslim scholars to apply it to Islam while using it to attack Christians beliefs based on our Bible. gfp (2012-03-27)
  • the vast majority of those who embrace form and redaction criticism in all of its flavors and kinds do so out of tradition, not out of having examined the case set forth in defense of these methods.
  • I truly wondered why the Lord had closed all other doors and put me in that context, but, now I know) forced me to consider deeply why I could not in good conscience embrace the "status quo" of modern NT scholarship
  • ...18 more annotations...
  • I found, over and over again, the same kind of bald anti-supernaturalism at work, even amongst those who did not openly espouse such a view in their "religious life."
  • This kind of double-mindedness was epidemic in Christian theology then. It is still quite prevalent, but in the past decade more and more have shed the religious trappings and are seeking to be consistent, not even bothering with the religious garb any longer.
  • I would challenge (respectfully
  • saying the gospels were quite late, post AD 70, for example, I would ask why they would date them so late (and, as a result, deny the eyewitness authorship of, say, Matthew)
  • we would date them late because…of theories. Theories about how documents develop (in the natural world). Theories about how the early church developed (based upon, again, how such things happen in the natural world). And of course the big reason was…they had to have been written after AD 70 because, well, they couldn't have been written before otherwise they would contain…prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem! And we all know prophecy doesn't really exist, so there!
  • I only learned later in seminary and after graduation how confident scholarship had been in the past in giving even later dates, German scholarship, for example, having dated John as late as AD 175, only to have those dates thrown to the wind by manuscript discoveries.
  • the "consensus of scholarship," especially in a day when humanism and naturalistic materialism has become the religious dogma of the society, and of higher education, is not an option for the faithful follower of the teachings of Jesus the Messiah.
  • For years Shabir Ally had been making a presentation wherein he presents the "snowball" argument. It is a basic anti-gospel argument based upon a rather simplistic viewpoint of the origination of the gospels.
  • Shabir thinks there is an over-riding impetus on the part of both Matthew and Luke to "grow" Jesus, assuming, of course, an evolution in the development of Christology (another assumption that is just accepted, never proven). So, Matthew and Luke are looking for ways to "improve" on Jesus---which puts them in the category of deceivers, really, at the very least from an Islamic viewpoint
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      Muslims who, like Imam Ally have a minimal knowldge of the New Covenat and wish to feign politness, can use this "improvement" approach. It prevents them from having to use the blunt English word change when attacking Scriptures validity. During the debate, I heard a Muslim and a Christian in the seats immediately behind me discussing the semantical difference between these words. The Christian suspected, as do I, that Imam Ally was accusing the Apostles Mathew and Luke of being "liars".
  • examples of where Matthew was "growing" Jesus
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      "Growing" is Dr. White's word. Imam Ally never used it. Instead, he stated candidly that Mathew and Luke intentionally "deified" a human Prophet which Muslims say Yeshua only was because "Allah doesn't begat" (Qur'an 23:88-91).
  • Shabir did not know that Mark used the Greek term κύριος (kurios) when he was making his presentations before 2006, but he does now. But still, in our debate in Toronto, he argued that in fact this is still an example supportive of his thesis, no matter what his understanding had been before, for "lord of the house" is still different from "Lord." He likewise cited a scholar who, writing on the "synoptic problem," likewise mentions this "change."
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      In other words, Imam Ally has found an obfuscating, so-called, Christian author to justify what he now knows is a 'lie" that he wishes to still feed to his ignorant Muslim audience, knowing that they will believe him over Dr. White.
  • let's talk about how this text could be seen in a very different fashion.
  • Let's admit something: We do not know when any of the gospels were written. They have no date stamps on them. If we examine the internal material of the Synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) without naturalistic biases, we would have to conclude they were written between 35 and about 65 AD (i.e., after the crucifixion but prior to the opening of hostilities leading to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in AD 70)
  • As Richard Bauckham has pointed out (and his role in our debate was most interesting, and again illustrated that I really do not believe Dr. Ally understands my point on this matter), the eyewitnesses to the events of the gospel continued in the church for many decades, forming a very important core element of the continuation of the gospel message.
  • The gospel story began to be proclaimed by the eyewitnesses and the first generation of believers immediately after Pentecost. It spread like wildfire, turning the world upside down. It spread both by zeal as well as by persecution. The oral tradition of the church was the context out of which the gospels themselves were written. The gospel writers were fully aware of that tradition. They were not seeking to supplant it, but to organize it and preserve it in yet another form.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      During the debate, I could not understand why Dr. White kept referring to the "oral tradition" as he does here without once making the powerful point that the Gospel writers were the originators of the tradition as the disciples of Jesus. They were writing about their eye witness accounts ...not recounting an oral tradion circulated first by others.
  • This oral tradition, something shared by the entire community, is the source out of which they drew their narrative.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      It is the source only to the extend that they, themselves, were the creaters of the so-called "oral tradition" as members of Jesus "inside group of disciples".
  • If we assume that Matthew and Mark are not liars, that they are not dishonest men, and that they are seeking to communicate a message faithfully, drawing from the tradition known to them, we conclude, upon examination of numerous texts such as the above, that
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      Here Dr. White writes again like the Gospel accounts were repeated by the Apostles from what others said rather than them writing down the stories in which they, themselves, particiapted with Jesus. Dr. White's approach confuses me because, to me, it doesn't make the point regarding eye-witness testimony!
  • we can see that both are giving us perfectly proper renditions of the same incident and the same words, one in fuller form than the other, both seeking to communicate the same concept, though to two different audiences.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      Police and lawyer studies confirm this type of variiance is common between eye witness accounts when an event is seem from different perspectives through the experiences and mindset of unique people. I'm unclear why Dr. white doesn't state this fact which reinforces his hypothesis about Scripture's timeline and seeming contradictions.
Gary Patton

"God Confirms A Christian's "Assurance of Salvation'" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture john salvation esus Yeshua Isa Islam islamization testimony

shared by Gary Patton on 21 Jun 12 - No Cached
  • 1 John 5:9-13
  • And the testimony is this, that God has given us (E)eternal life, and (F)this life is in His Son. 12 (G)He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
  • These things I have written to you who (I)believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (J)eternal life.
  • Gary Patton on 21 Jun 12
     
    "God Confirms A Christian's "Assurance of Salvation'" In 1 john 5:9-13, Holy Spirit spells out clearly that the salvation of a Jesus Follower is secure because of what our Saviour and Master did on His cross. There He paid the full penalty for our sin nature and sins by giving His sinless life as a substitute for us. God proved His acceptance of Jesus' "offering for sin" by raising Jesus from the dead. Jesus' resurrection was documented at the time by over 500 witnesses many of whom were martyred for their belief in what He did ...without recanting their faith in what they had seen with their own eyes. gfp (2012-06-21)
Gary Patton

Q: What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? - 0 views

ebible.com/2872

shared by Gary Patton on 04 Nov 13 - No Cached
  • There is subordination within the Trinity.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Nov 13
       
      An argument can be made that at least Jesus and The Father are co-equal, some Christians say. I also hold this belief because the references to Jesus' subservience to His Father are made by the God-man. Jesus is fully God but also fully man. Jesus makes clear that His miracles all were performed by His Father or Holy spirt. Therefore I believe that until Jesus returned to Heaven, He operated on earth without His Godly powers which He'd left behind. As a special human, Jesus therefore, was truly subservient to the other dimensions of God. The passages seemingly ascribing Holy Spirit's alleged subservience to The Fater and Jesus, I suggest could also be described as 'deference' rather than 'subservience'.
  • An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Nov 13
       
      While, I agree, of course, Michael does not mention what I feel is the best analogy, i.e., I am my Father's son, the husband of my wife, Karen, and the Father of my daughter, Shawna. These three dimensions are different aspects of the same, one being who is also a spirit in a temporary earth suit because I have the image of God Who is spirit. (Genesis 1:7)
  • The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Nov 13
       
      Contrary to what some might feel that Michael is writing here, The Trinity is NOT a divisive doctrine among those who Follow Jesus only among non-Followers. It's a "rock" on which most non-Followers of Jesus stumble" (Luke 7:22-23 at http://goo.gl/hNMmAV). The Trinity is a core belief of our faith in God, The Father (Genesis 1:1) and His salvation through God the Son's, Yeshuaoh's/Jesus', death and resurrection (Romans 10:8-12), plus our empowerment through God, The Holy Spirit, living in us (1 Corinthianss 6:19). As Followers of God, "The One & Only", Who is NOT Allah of the Muslims of Islam or the gods of the polytheistic religionists, we believe in the Trinity, as truth, "in faith" ..."being sure of what we hope for (Biblically: 'know') and certain of what we cannot see". (Hebrews 11:1 & 6) GaryFPatton (2013-11-04 gfp '42)
Gary Patton

The Barna Group - Are Christians More Like Jesus or More Like the Pharisees? - 1 views

www.barna.org/...sus-or-more-like-the-pharisees

christians jesus attitude workplace behaviour religion relationships theology

shared by Gary Patton on 01 May 13 - No Cached
  • 20 statements
  • used to examine Christ-likeness
  • I listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith. In recent years, I have influenced multiple people to consider following Christ. I regularly choose to have meals with people with very different faith or morals from me. I try to discover the needs of non-Christians rather than waiting for them to come to me. I am personally spending time with non-believers to help them follow Jesus.
  • ...13 more annotations...
  • I see God-given value in every person, regardless of their past or present condition. I believe God is for everyone. I see God working in people’s lives, even when they are not following him. It is more important to help people know God is for them than to make sure they know they are sinners. I feel compassion for people who are not following God and doing immoral things.
  • 10 statements used to assess self-righteousness (like the Pharisees)
  • I tell others the most important thing in my life is following God’s rules. I don’t talk about my sins or struggles. That’s between me and God. I try to avoid spending time with people who are openly gay or lesbian. I like to point out those who do not have the right theology or doctrine. I prefer to serve people who attend my church rather than those outside the church.
  • I find it hard to be friends with people who seem to constantly do the wrong things. It’s not my responsibility to help people who won’t help themselves. I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see other people’s failures and flaws. I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values. People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.
  • Christ-like in action and attitude
  • Christ-like in action, but not in attitude • Christ-like in attitude, but not action • Christ-like in neither
  • The findings reveal that most self-identified Christians in the U.S. are characterized by having the attitudes and actions researchers identified as Pharisaical. Just over half of the nation’s Christians—using the broadest definition of those who call themselves Christians—qualify for this category (51%). They tend to have attitudes and actions that are characterized by self-righteousness.
  • On the other end of the spectrum, 14% of today’s self-identified Christians—just one out of every seven Christians—seem to represent the actions and attitudes Barna researchers found to be consistent with those of Jesus.
  • About one-quarter (23%) of evangelicals are characterized by having Jesus-like actions and attitudes, which was higher than the norm
  • Looking at America’s evangelical community—a group defined by Barna Group based on its theological beliefs and commitments, not self-identification with the terms “evangelical”—38% qualify as neither Christ-like in action nor attitude
  • Evangelicals are notably distinct from the norms in two ways: first, they were slightly more likely than other Christians to be Christ-like in action and attitude.
  • in the “middle ground,” with so-called jumbled actions and attitudes, evangelicals are the only faith group more likely to be Pharisaical in attitude but Christ-like in action.
  • The research shows that non-evangelical born again Christians and notional Christians were not much different from one another and not too distinct from national norms among all Christians.
Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

www.bib-arch.org/...jesus-last-supper.asp

bible scripture interpretation Jesus judiasm christianity archaeology history

shared by Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12 - No Cached
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Why would two people, Matthew and Luke, who were the more consistent eye witnesses to the accounts that they report copy Mark? It makes no sense. Mark was a boy while Jesus walked Israel and did not travel about with Him. Mark also was not an original Disciple of Jesus and reported on most the events in his Gospel based on second hand information from the Disciples who did travel with jesus, one can assume. I feel the whole Mathew and Luke copied Mark plus Mark is based on some lost document called "Q" theory of many scholars is rooted in a desire by many to deny or ignore God's supernatural involvement in the documentation of His Son's incarnation and ignores the fact that Matthew and John were eye witnesses to all of what they wrote about. They had no need to copy but had their own perspective on what they heard and saw as do modern witnesses. Likewise, modern research indicates that the reports of most eye witnesses are highly unreliable. If God was not involved, one would have to question the accounts. If that one is not a Jesus Follower and without faith in the supernatural inerancy of the Biblical accounts of both the Old and New Covenants, that's another matter entirely.
  • Thus, in fact we don’t really have three independent sources here at all. What we have, rather, is one testimony (probably Mark), which was then copied twice (by Matthew and Luke).
  • Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This April 2012 article in BAR analyzes the similarities between the Jewish Seder and what Christians call Jesus' "Last Supper" and the timing of the event based on archaeological evidence. gfp (2012-04-07)
  • ...25 more annotations...
  • the Gospels—with their hatred of the Jewish authorities
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I wonder why the author construes an historical report of what the writer considered 'truth' and 'facts' as 'hatred'. The history of Christianity may be replete with antisemitism, especially some of the protestant Reformers of the Catholic Church, like Luther particulalrly. However, I feel the charge of hatred in the Gospel accounts of the Jewish involvement in the death of Jesus is an unfair one. The Roman authorities were jst as responsible for the crucifixion of Yeshua/Jesus. In fact the Bible seems to make clear that the sin nature and sins of every person who has ever or ever will live is the real reason for Jesus' death. We are ALL responsible ...not just the Jewish and Roman authorities!
  • John’s timing of events supports the Christian claim that Jesus himself was a sacrifice and that his death heralds a new redemption, just as the Passover offering recalls an old one. Even so, John’s claim that Jesus was killed just before Passover began is more plausible than the synoptics’ claim that Jesus was killed on Passover.
  • the Last Supper could not in fact have been a Passover Seder.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Christian historical tradition labels "The Last Supper" a Seder ... not Jesus. He is recorded to have simply called it the "last time He would eat this bread and drink this wine until ...". It was "the time for passover". That Jesus duplicated many Seder rituals seems to be clear from the Gospel accounts ...even if the timing was off. What's the big deal? The REALLY important thing about the Easter events is that Jesus died for humankind's sin nature and sins. Plus, the other big historical event is His resurrection from the grave as proof that God accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of "all who will believe" in Him and what He did for us!
  • That Christians celebrated the Eucharist on a daily or weekly basis (see Acts 2:46–47) underscores the fact that it was not viewed exclusively in a Passover context (otherwise, it would have been performed, like the Passover meal, on an annual basis).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Jesus called us to "do this", i.e., celebrate His sacrifice by eating together as a community of Believers in and Followers of Him. He did not call us to celebrate Passover an eternal commandment for Jews only. Jesus claimed that he had come to fulfill "all the [requirements of the] law and the prophets"!
  • Moreover, while the narrative in the synoptics situates the Last Supper during Passover, the fact remains that the only foods we are told the disciples ate are bread and wine—the basic elements of any formal Jewish meal.
  • “Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant’” (Matthew 26:26–28=Mark 14:22; see also Luke 22:19–20). Is this not a striking parallel to the ways in which Jews celebrating the Seder interpret, for example, the bitter herbs eaten with the Passover sacrifice as representing the bitter life the Israelites experienced as slaves in Egypt?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I'd suggest it is more a replacement of, as I note above, rather than a parallel with a Seder!
  • For many Jews (especially non-Orthodox Jews), the process of development continues, and many modern editions of the Haggadah contain contemporary readings of one sort or another. Even many traditional Jews have, for instance, adapted the Haggadah so that mention can be made of the Holocaust.8
  • Almost everyone doing serious work on the early history of Passover traditions, including Joseph Tabory, Israel Yuval, Lawrence Hoffman, and the father-son team of Shmuel and Ze’ev Safrai, has rejected Finkelstein’s claims for the great antiquity of the bulk of the Passover Haggadah.
  • It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple.b
  • the Holy One, blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Here may lie the roots of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • King of Kings, the Holy One Blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      As I wonder in the e-Sticky Note immediately above, here may lie the root of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • Might not Jesus be presenting a competing interpretation of these symbols? Possibly. But it really depends on when this Rabban Gamaliel lived. If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • Virtually all scholars working today believe that the Haggadah tradition attributing the words quoted above to Gamaliel refers to the grandson, Rabban Gamaliel the Younger, who lived long after Jesus had died.14 One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • And presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      A Jesus Follower can know that s(he) knows by faith in the accuracy of our Scriptures. The Scriptures make clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant. he explains clearly a NEW symbolism for the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt but... all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • Having determined that the Last Supper was not a Seder and that it probably did not take place on Passover, I must try to account for why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      The Last Supper being a Seder meal on the Day of Passover is NOT the key issue for a Jesus Follower as I mentioned in my e-Sticky Note above. The key on the cotrary is Who Jesus was as the God-man and what he was about to do for us on His cross on cavalry.
  • Another motive relates to a rather practical question: Within a few years after Jesus’ death, Christian communities (which at first consisted primarily of Jews) began to ask when, how and even whether they should celebrate or commemorate the Jewish Passover
  • The Quartodeciman custom of celebrating Easter beginning on the evening following the 14th day apparently began relatively early in Christian history and persisted at least into the fifth century C.E.
  • Early on, a number of Christians—Quartodecimans and others—felt that the appropriate way to mark the Jewish Passover was not with celebration, but with fasting.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Interestingly, no where, that I can find in the Old or New Covenants, does God command or even suggest that His people should fast. I have not extensively researched the issue but, I suspect I'll discover that, this propably is a Jewish ritual that was carried on by early Christians, i.e., another man-made tradition. There is the reference in Matthew 6:16-18 where Jesus says: "When you fast ...." This is NOT a command but simply, in context, an observational reference to a practise that was common among religious Jews ...the group to whom Jesus was speaking. I comment further on this issue in e-Sticky Note on the Matthew 6 Scripture at http://diigo.com/0piw0 and in the article on fasting from Christianity today at http://diigo.com/0p9iv .
  • Thus, until Jesus’ kingdom is fulfilled, Christians should not celebrate at all during Passove
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      here again, and depsite what Karl Kuhn says, the issue is not celebrating Passover, but Jesus' command to eat together as a group of his Followers whenever we can and "remember" him.
  • By calling the Last Supper a Passover meal, these Jewish-Christians were trying to limit Christian practice in three ways. Like the Passover sacrifice, the recollection of the Last Supper could only be celebrated in Jerusalem, at Passover time, and by Jews.c
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This heresy didn't last very long. Some Messianic Jews still today follow Old Covenant feast and other practises that other Christians do not.
  • there are various reasons why the early church would have tried to “Passoverize” the Last Supper tradition.
  • This too is a Passoverization of the Jesus tradition, but it is one that contradicts the identification of the Last Supper with the Seder or Passover meal.
  • Surely the depiction of the Last Supper as a Passover observance could play a part in this larger effort of arguing that Jesus’ death echoes the Exodus from Egypt
  • a widely popular Paschal sermon, which could well be called a “Christian Haggadah,” reflecting at great length on the various connections between the Exodus story and the life of Jesus
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Typology as some call it i.e., seeing Old Covenant people, practises and places as 'types' or 'shadows' pointing to or representing Jesus is common in some Christian circles and with some teachers.
  • Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.23 Is it not possible to see the switch from using leavened to unleavened bread as a “Passoverization” of sorts?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      And regardless of leavened or unleavened bread or wafers, these kinds of issue are seen by many Jesus Followers as focusing on dead and deadly religious ritual, regalia and rules rather than on relationship, revelation and romance with a living God through Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Gary Patton

How Islamic Can Christianity Be? - The Gospel Coalition Blog - 0 views

thegospelcoalition.org/...ow-islamic-can-christianity-be

christianity gospel evangelism Islam islamization

shared by Gary Patton on 22 May 12 - No Cached
  • My wife and I had been working with Muslims for years and were aware of this training, commonly referred to as the Insider Movement.
  • when I first read about Insider Movements, I had the same reaction she did. I was hopeful and excited.
  • Could this be the tool that causes a spiritual awakening in the Muslim world? Over time, as we continued our ministry to Muslims in the Middle East, I realized the answer to my question was "No, it will not."
  • ...28 more annotations...
  • The Insider Movement (IM) remains a hot topic in missions circles.
  • This issue is extremely complicated and extremely important, making it difficult to write about.
  • Rebecca Lewis, a proponent, defines the IM as follows: Insider movements can be defined as movements to obedient faith in Christ that remain integrated with or inside their natural community. In any insider movement there are two distinct elements:
  • This definition is broad and can be interpreted many different ways---which is one of the difficulties in pinpointing the teachings of the movement.
  • those opposed to IM seem to assume that proponents are syncretistic heretics.
  • The IM advocates I've met are wonderful people.
  • They are winsome, intelligent people who love the Lord and want to see Muslims saved.
  • we need to address the dangerous practices within the movement, which varies to some degree from person to person and country to country. Therefore, my critique may not apply to all IMs. Nevertheless, the following key issues need to be addressed.
  • many other IM advocates believe the gospel can be found within the Qur'an, if you correctly interpret the text. But the gospel cannot be found in the Qur'an, because the Qur'an did not come to us through the inspiration of God as found in the Bible.
  • There is also an arrogant attitude---almost imperialistic---involved in this assertion.
  • IM practitioners seek to keep new followers of Jesus within their socio-religious networks. For support their cite various texts in the Bible (1 Corinthians 7:17-24, 9:19-23; 2 Kings 5:15-19). Therefore, a Muslim who follows Jesus remains a Muslim.
  • I agree that Muslims who follow Christ shouldn't be required to take on the name "Christian."
  • We find among many IM advocates a belief that Islam can be redeemed---we should not abandon the religion but rather change it from within and welcome it into orthodoxy.
  • How Islamic can Christianity be? Can a Muslim who now follows Jesus fast during Ramadan? Can a Muslim who follows Jesus use the Islamic prayer stances? Where do we draw the line? These are tough questions.
  • While the word Christian can have a very negative connotation among Muslims, encouraging MBBs to retain the title "Muslim" can be confusing at best and deceptive at worst. Advocates for using the title "Muslim" argue that it literally means "one who submits to God." This is semantically true. However, the word connotes much more---namely, one who follows the religion of Islam by confessing, "There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet."
  • Some argue that God used Muhammad to bring monotheism to the Arabs---a kind of John the Baptist for the Arabs. This is a dangerous concession.
  • Rejecting Muhammad as a prophet does not require denigrating him before Muslims; it means we should not say more than necessary.
  • We can be respectful and identify the positive contributions he made to society without agreeing that he is a prophet.
  • How Islamic Can Christianity Be?
  • I never encourage MBBs to retain the title Muslim. Nor do I encourage them to take the title Christian.
  • Recent Bible translations for Muslims have created a frenzy by moving "Father" and "Son" language about the Trinity from the text to the footnotes.
  • What if the only understood meaning is physical and sexual? How do we translate without losing or grossly misrepresenting the biblical meaning?
  • the decisions about how to make the Bible comprehensible in other cultures are not easy or made lightly.
  • Some in the IM prefer to talk about Muslims "entering the kingdom of God" as opposed to "joining" Christianity.
  • We should view as suspect any form of church planting that does not seek to connect believers with the universal body of Christ and promote unity.
  • emphasis on the kingdom of God can downplay the importance of the church.
  • Missionaries and academics have wondered aloud whether the problem extends beyond Western politics, military intervention, and spiritual bondage to the very way we present the gospel. Could our methods be to blame? Could more sophisticated contextualization unlock many more hearts for Christ?
  • we can introduce Muslims to Jesus through the Qur'an
  • Gary Patton on 22 May 12
     
    This article explains the dangers of what's called the "Insider Movement" i.e. evangelizing Jesus Followers using the Qur'an and telling Muslims they can follow Jesus while remaining part of Islam. The article is written by a couple who have shared Jesus', not Isa's, love wit Muslims for many years in the Middle East. gfp (2012-05-21)
Gary Patton

Muslim Persecution of Christians: May, 2012 :: Raymond Ibrahim - 0 views

www.raymondibrahim.com/...ecution-of-christians-may-2012

muslim christians persecution hate

shared by Gary Patton on 05 Jul 12 - No Cached
  • Muslim Persecution of Christians: May, 2012
  • Gary Patton on 05 Jul 12
     
    Christians must always remember that Scripture clearly tells us that our real enemies are not Islamists, Islam or Muslims or others that persecute and kill us. Our R-E-A-L enemies are diabolical spirits as outlined in http://diigo.com/0jl35 . They are motivated by Satan and his hordes of demons in opposition to anything that is of God. The statement of the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aur
Gary Patton

God's Incredible & Unfathomable Love For All Wo(men) In Predestination - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible romans predestination trials scripture evangelism theology religion

shared by Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11 - No Cached
  • Romans 8:28-39
  • For I am convinced that neither (AE)death, nor life, nor (AF)angels, nor principalities, nor (AG)things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from (AH)the love of God, which is (AI)in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      WOW, eh! And this promise comes as the icing on the cake of those in verses 31-37!
  • all things work together for good
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      Either wording works for me as a guarantee that God's "got my back", regardless of what he allows to "come down the track", plus He will work everything to "my best"! How about you?
  • ...8 more annotations...
  • Romans 8:28-39
  • Romans 8:28-39
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      God's Incredible & Unfathomable Love For All Wo(men) Romans 8:29-30, in the context of the entire passage of verses 28-39, is the New Covenant's clearest statement of what theologians call the "Doctrine of Predestination". I will outline one position on this controversial and emotionally-charged word below. Predestination is a highly contentious word both inside and outside the organizational church. This contention flows almost completely from how one defines the word. The promise tucked inside of verse 28 is also a fantastic one as I note in the e-Sticky Note on that verse. Your heavenly Father starts by telling you how He handles it when we screw up. Then finally nearer the end of the passage, God explains, using an incredible metaphor, how much He loves all humankind, irrespective of their current state of "election", and without us having to earn His love in any way, shape or form. gfp (2012- 05-05 )
  • What then shall we say to these things? (L)If God is for us, who is against us?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      As also confirmed in Verse 33, no person or being in this world nor in the spirit realm can condemn God's "elect", at any time nor in any way. This is God's promise here regardless of his/her character, or sin, or current level of their conformity to Jesus' image. The fantastic promises regarding the breadth, depth and height of God's unfailing and unending love for us, outlined in verses 32-39 below, are NOT dependent on our loving God or even seeking Him, first.
  • Who will bring a charge against (O)God’s elect? (P)God is the one who justifies;
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      As confirmed in Verse 31, no person or being in this world nor in the spirit realm can condemn God's "elect", at any time nor in any way. This is God's promise here regardless of the elect person's character, or sin, or current level of their conformity to Jesus' image.
  • New American Standard Bible (NASB)
  • God causes (A)all things to work together for good to those who love God
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      Followers of Jesus have this incredible promise from their heavenly Father God to depend on when confronted with any and every trial in their lives ...no matter how dis-stressing! It's a fantastic encourager during tough times and a wonderful companion to the promise in 1 Corinthians 10:13 at http://diigo.com/0jmgy . Don't let anyone try to convince you of the lie that you have to love God first and seek Him before He will save you. The Bible says in Romans 3:3 that "no one seeks God". The only thing you need to do to know that you know you're saved is outlined simply in Romans 10:9-10 at http://diigo.com/0lk6j and 1 John 4:15-17 at http://diigo.com/0qe80 .
  • those who are (B)called according to His purpos
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      Here is another clear promise of the surety of a Jesus Follower's salvation in Christ and the truth of the doctrine that we are "once saved and always saved". Or guaranteed salvation is also promised in John 10:22-30 at http://diigo.com/0jv8q, Philippians 1:6 at http://diigo.com/0lzi8 as well as here at Romans 8:28-39 at http://diigo.com/0lc07 . Please never forget that God elected those He has "predestined" to spend eternity with Him now and in the life after this one as it says in verses 29-30 immediately below. This predestined election applies regardless of one's current state of conformity to Jesus' image. God loves all his creation, especially we humans, more than we can ever understand in this life. Incredibly, your heavenly Father picked His elect for salvation before we were ever born. He did so at the beginning of time. And He did it pre-knowing we would be sinners and hate Him as it says in Romans 5:8 at http://diigo.com/0mphg plus elsewhere in the Bible.
  • those whom He (C)foreknew, He also (D)predestined to become (E)conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the (F)firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He (G)predestined, He also (H)called; and these whom He called, He also (I)justified; and these whom He justified, He also (J)glorified.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 18 May 12
       
      Followers of Jesus have this incredible promise from their heavenly Father God to depend on when confronted with any and every trial in their lives ...no matter how dis-stressing! It's a fantastic encourager during tough times and a wonderful companion to the promise in 1 Corinthians 10:13 at http://diigo.com/0jmgy . Don't let anyone try to convince you of the lie that you have to love God first and seek Him before He will save you. The Bible says in Romans 3:3 that "no one seeks God". The only thing you need to do to know that you know you're saved is outlined simply in Romans 10:9-10 at http://diigo.com/0lk6j and 1 John 4:15-17 at http://diigo.com/0qe80 . e-Sticky Note #1 on Verse 28 "those who are called" Here is another clear promise of the surety of a Jesus Follower's salvation in Christ and the truth of the doctrine that we are "once saved and always saved". Or guaranteed salvation is also promised in John 10:22-30 at http://diigo.com/0jv8q, Philippians 1:6 at http://diigo.com/0lzi8 as well as here at Romans 8:28-39 at http://diigo.com/0lc07 . Please never forget that God elected those He has "predestined" to spend eternity with Him now and in the life after this one as it says in verses 29-30 immediately below. This predestined election applies regardless of one's current state of conformity to Jesus' image. God loves all his creation, especially we humans, more than we can ever understand in this life. Incredibly, your heavenly Father picked His elect for salvation before we were ever born. He did so at the beginning of time. And He did it pre-knowing we would be sinners and hate Him as it says in Romans 5:8 at http://diigo.com/0mphg plus elsewhere in the Bible. e-Sticky Note on Verse 29-30 Predestination mentioned here is a key part, some would say the most, key part, of the theology (beliefs about God) of those people who call themselves 'Calvinists' or sometimes people of the "Reformed Tradition". For these and other folks who reject bo
  • Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
     
    Romans 8:29-30, in the context of the passage from Romans 8:28-39, is the New Covenant clearest statment of what theologians call "Predestination" ...that God elects one some people to spend eternity with Him and the rest will be separated from him.
Gary Patton

The Great Commission is For ALL Believers - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

matthew jesus Great Commission scripture gospel evangelism

shared by Gary Patton on 11 Jan 12 - No Cached
  • Matthew 28:18-20
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Aug 12
       
      Christian: Jesus' (Yeshua's) Great Commission contains a confusing translation. Matthew 28:18-20 is what many Christians call Jesus' "Great Commission". It is the last command your Saviour and Lord left with you if you are His. The Great Commission is NOT a command to convert others NOR for professionals only. It simply says that Jesus Followers must share Jesus' love in their own way as they are led by Holy Spirit to let Him do the R-E-A-L work (Relational-Engaging-Authentic-Loving & Life-giving) ...as Jesus lives His life out through His Followers. You'll discover that the poor translation, as others would call it is explained in my Note on Verse 19. It has led many into believing something that Jesus (Yeshua) NEVER said. This mistranslation, I believe, has negativity impacted the sharing of His love with Jesus Followers' neighbours.
  • All authority has been given to Me
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Aug 12
       
      Jesus is the ONLY One who builds His Kingdom here on earth as He says here. A Jesus Follower does NOT convert ...anyone. Jesus, in the person of Holy Spirit living in you, will draw to Himself those He brings across your path that He wants to save as He makes clear in John 15: 5 at http://diigo.com/0jv2h . And if what you are doing seems like hard work, stop, because you're probably doing something wrong, e.g., not prayed for the person by name sufficiently, invested quality time in the person, nor built enough trust ...or you have the wrong heart about sharing Jesus.
  • make disciples
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Aug 12
       
      Jesus Followers are not to convert others! We are to let Jesus do it by living His life out through us as we invest time in others and share His love with them. A Jesus Follower's real role is to be "a discipler"! A discipler acts like a farmer. S(he) simply plants, waters, weeds and, then, collects the harvest given to them by Holy Spirit. But instead of sticking your crop in a barn or building, a holding tank most Christians call "the church" and turning them over to paid professionals, Jesus says clearly that you are to help your disciple grow. You are to be a support to Holy Spirit Who is "the Sanctifier" of every disciple that He allows you to protect and assist until they reasonably mature and "grow out" into the world. Plus, you are commanded to do so until you have assisted your disciple to be ready to reproduce him/herself by "mirroring" Jesus to another and reproducing themselves by letting Jesus live is life out through them ...as you modeled for them and taught them to do. This simple process God designed as His "Plan 'A'" to be a constantly repeating one that each Jesus Follower performs as s(he0 is going along where God has planted them at that time ...until Jesus returns or takes them home. It's called "spiritual multiplication". And Jesus has NO "Plan B'"! And yes, with prayerful practise, you can work with more than one Disciple at a time.
  • ...1 more annotation...
  • o therefore
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Aug 12
       
      While the common, traditional translation of the King James Version (KJV) of the Christian Bible, plus many more modern translations uses the word, there is NO action verb "go" in verse 19 in the original Greek. The NASB alternate translation at (a) below is a better and more accurate rendering of the Greek. But, it still can be misunderstood to mean "Go over there" somewhere. For even better and more accurate clarity, I prefer: "As you are going along, make disciples ..." This rendering is best because it makes clearest that the Great Commission is the calling and commanded mandate of every person who has Holy Spirit living in them ...NOT just paid, professional preachers, pastors and evangelists... as too many Christians believe. For further documentation of the impact of the poor translation, here is what another Greek expert says: * "The sole imperative and central activity in the Great Commission as recorded in Matthew 28 is to " Make Disciples." "Go," could be translated " going" or "as you go," but takes any imperatival force it may have from the main verb. * "Baptizing" and "teaching" are also participles-not "decisions" or "converts" or "believers" or "acceptors," but "disciples." It goes without saying that the decision-making, conversion, belief, and acceptance are all involved, but the objective of the Great Commission is that we Make Disciples (followers, adherents, learners, and students) of the Lord Jesus. * Hesselgrave, David J., "Scripture and strategy: The Use of the Bible in Postmodern Church and Mission", Pages 106-07 John A. Finton makes a powerful case in his article at http://diigo.com/0qqdf for a poor translation in Matthew 28:19. Because of my evangelism experience, I believe this inappropriate translation has incorrectly preconditioned many English-speaking members of the Body of Christ since at least the publishing of the KJV.
  • Gary Patton on 11 Jan 12
     
    Matthew 28:18-20 is what many Christians call Jesus' "Great Commission". It's the last command your Saviour and Lord left with you if you are His. The Great Commission is NOT a command to convert others NOR for professionals only. It says just share Jesus' love in your own way as led and let Holy Spirit do the R-E-A-L work (Relational-Engaging-Authentic-Loving & Life-giving) ...as Jesus lives His life out through you. gfp (2011-09-18)
Gary Patton

"The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church" - Book Summary - 0 views

www.grandpappy.info/brapture.htm

bible scripture scripture interpretation rapture

shared by Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12 - No Cached
  • The following summary is based on Chapter Ten of Marvin Rosenthal's book, The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      In his book, "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", Marvin Rosenthal, outlines a powerful, Biblical analysis of the Old and New Covenants regarding when the so-called "Rapture" of Jesus Followers takes place. Mr. Rosenthal concludes from his well-documented, clear, easy-to-understand and graphics-supported analysis that the commonly-believed "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" theological position of most North American Bible teachers is inaccurate and not supported by a careful Biblical analysis. This is an excellent summary of the key aspects of Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • There is a debate going on among Christians
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      The debate is because Jesus said: "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Luke 12:40). Please read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . It clearly stated there that we cannot know for certain when Jesus will return for his Followers and the judge the earth. But we can be certain He will do so! Therefore, Jesus Followers are wise to live lives of faith, obeying Jesus in all things as we are commanded in 2 Peter 3:8-13 (Contemporary English Version (CEV)) 8 Dear friends, don't forget that for the Lord one day is the same as a thousand years, and a thousand years is the same as one day. 9 The Lord isn't slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost. 10 The day of the Lord's return will surprise us like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a loud noise, and the heat will melt the whole universe. [a] Then the earth and everything on it will be seen for what they are. [b] 11 Everything will be destroyed. So you should serve and honor God by the way you live. 12 You should look forward to the day when God judges everyone, and you should try to make it come soon. [c] On that day the heavens will be destroyed by fire, and everything else will melt in the heat. 13 But God has promised us a new heaven and a new earth, where justice will rule. We are really looking forward to that! Footnotes: 2 Peter 3:10 the whole universe: Probably the sun, moon, and stars, or the elements that everything in the universe is made of. 2 Peter 3:10 will be seen for what they are: Some manuscripts have "will go up in flames." 2 Peter 3:12 and you should try to make it come soon: Or "and you should eagerly desire for that day to come."
  • The fact of the Rapture is not in question (at least not among Christians).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 describes what Christians call 'The rapture. This verse is included below in the discussion of the Scriptures re the "Sixth Seal" mention in the "Book of Revelation" in the Bible.
  • ...13 more annotations...
  • Most Christians believe it will occur immediately before the tribulation period begins. A few Christians believe it will occur either during the tribulation period, or near the very end of the tribulation period.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      As you'll discover, the latter belief, i.e., just before the end of the Tribulation, is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • Christians believe the entire Bible is the true and accurate Word of God, and it is without error.
  • The most logical way to address this issue is to see what the Holy Bible has to say about this event.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Many Christian teachers would say the last statement here is too strongly put. They would say that "the Bible is infalabie" only in its original source documents ...none of which ave been found when I write this in 2012. Teachers, generally, are less dogmatic on the infalibility of current translations. They offer various positions on this issue.
  • Do not rely on footnotes added to your Bible. A biblical footnote is not the inspired Word of God, even though it is printed in your Bible. It is simply one person's interpretation of scripture.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is a valuable warning.
  • Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      You'll find out about the background and expereice of the author of this article at http://is.gd/sAdEWE. Regrettably, "Grandpappy" his nickname, does not describe his background as a Christian.
  • Who, of their own accord, without the witness of a fellow Christian, would be willing to accept the Christian faith if that meant they would be immediately slain?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      I'm unsure that this argument proves anything! No one accepts Jesus as Saviour and Lord of their own accord before, during or, as noted here, after the so-called Rapture of "Believers in Jesus" that are still alive on the earth just before the opening of the "Sixth Seal". We are always and only saved by God's grace and even our faith, which is involved as it says in Ephesians 2:8-9, is a gift from Father God. Holy Spirit does the convicting and the saving of pre-believers. There is no Scripture that says Holy Spirit's presence EVER leaves the earth, that I've found.
  • In the book of Revelation, a great multitude of Christians, from all over the world, suddenly appear in heaven. For someone with an open mind, these two descriptions are almost identical to what we Christians call the Rapture of the saints. Notice also that this reference to the Rapture in the book of Revelation occurs right after the 144,000 Jews are ordained to spread the Gospel. God does not want anyone to perish, and he has provided a way for the Gospel to be carried forth after all the new testament Christians are Raptured.
  • Christians will be spared from that wrath.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree with this statement on the basis of the numerous Scritures you can find described at http://is.gd/3y1nV8 . I lean especially on 1 Thessalonians 5: 9 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . I believe all the Scriptures at the above link clearly refer to Jesus Followers' salvation, in Christ, from an eternity separated from God. The latter seems to be what happens after the "Seventh Seal" is opened on those still remaining on the earth.
  • That is why they will be Raptured sometime between the opening of the 6th seal and the 7th seal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis based on his anlysis of the Old and New Covenant Scriptures mention above by this author. Mr. Rosenthal includes more in his book which I recommend to you for prayerful consideration, study and meditation. gfp (2012-01-19)
  • The opening of the seventh seal begins God's Wrath on an unbelieving world (from which Christians are spared).
  • This is a poor choice of terms for Daniel's 70th week, because
  • My purpose was to provide you with more information upon which you can make an informed decision.
  • His book is not based on personal opinion. It is based on the Word of God
  • Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
     
    This summary of Marvin Rosenthal's thesis in the book of the above title is by Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.. He summarizes Rosenthal's Old and New Covenant Scripture analysis regarding the timing of the rapture of the Church.
Gary Patton

"If You Ain't Lovin', You Ain't saved" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible Scripture scripture interpretation grace faith belief

shared by Gary Patton on 24 Jul 12 - No Cached
  • neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value
  • The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.(C)
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 24 Jul 12
       
      Because of this truth: ""If your faith doesn't produce love, you're NOT saved! ~ John Piper, Christian theologian
  • Galatians 5:6
  • Gary Patton on 24 Jul 12
     
    "If You Ain't Lovin', You Ain't saved" Galatians 5:6 makes clear the above in only two sentences. The faith you have in Jesus is ALL you need and ALL that counts as it says in Romans 10:8-10 at http://diigo.com/0lk6j . GaryFPatton (gfp '42™ 2012-07-23)
Gary Patton

Always be Ready with An Answer - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture evangelism belief

shared by Gary Patton on 09 Mar 12 - No Cached
  • 1 Peter 3:13-18
  • Who is [a]there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?
  • And do not fear their [c]intimidation, and do not be troubled
  • ...4 more annotations...
  • sanctify (E)Christ as Lord in your hearts
  • always being ready (F)to make a [e]defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the (G)hope that is in you, yet (H)with gentleness and [f](I)reverence
  • For (L)it is better, (M)if [h]God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
  • Christ also died for sins (O)once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might (P)bring us to God, having been put to death (Q)in the flesh, but made alive (R)in the [i]spirit;
  • Gary Patton on 09 Mar 12
     
    1 Peter 3:13-18 commands that we must be ready to be able to respond when someone questions what we believe. gfp (2012-03-08)
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