Skip to main content

Home/ Following Jesus Better/ Group items tagged history

Rss Feed Group items tagged

Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

    • Gary Patton
       
      Why would two people, Matthew and Luke, who were the more consistent eye witnesses to the accounts that they report copy Mark? It makes no sense. Mark was a boy while Jesus walked Israel and did not travel about with Him. Mark also was not an original Disciple of Jesus and reported on most the events in his Gospel based on second hand information from the Disciples who did travel with jesus, one can assume. I feel the whole Mathew and Luke copied Mark plus Mark is based on some lost document called "Q" theory of many scholars is rooted in a desire by many to deny or ignore God's supernatural involvement in the documentation of His Son's incarnation and ignores the fact that Matthew and John were eye witnesses to all of what they wrote about. They had no need to copy but had their own perspective on what they heard and saw as do modern witnesses. Likewise, modern research indicates that the reports of most eye witnesses are highly unreliable. If God was not involved, one would have to question the accounts. If that one is not a Jesus Follower and without faith in the supernatural inerancy of the Biblical accounts of both the Old and New Covenants, that's another matter entirely.
  • Thus, in fact we don’t really have three independent sources here at all. What we have, rather, is one testimony (probably Mark), which was then copied twice (by Matthew and Luke).
  • Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?
    • Gary Patton
       
      This April 2012 article in BAR analyzes the similarities between the Jewish Seder and what Christians call Jesus' "Last Supper" and the timing of the event based on archaeological evidence. gfp (2012-04-07)
  • ...25 more annotations...
  • the Gospels—with their hatred of the Jewish authorities
    • Gary Patton
       
      I wonder why the author construes an historical report of what the writer considered 'truth' and 'facts' as 'hatred'. The history of Christianity may be replete with antisemitism, especially some of the protestant Reformers of the Catholic Church, like Luther particulalrly. However, I feel the charge of hatred in the Gospel accounts of the Jewish involvement in the death of Jesus is an unfair one. The Roman authorities were jst as responsible for the crucifixion of Yeshua/Jesus. In fact the Bible seems to make clear that the sin nature and sins of every person who has ever or ever will live is the real reason for Jesus' death. We are ALL responsible ...not just the Jewish and Roman authorities!
  • John’s timing of events supports the Christian claim that Jesus himself was a sacrifice and that his death heralds a new redemption, just as the Passover offering recalls an old one. Even so, John’s claim that Jesus was killed just before Passover began is more plausible than the synoptics’ claim that Jesus was killed on Passover.
  • the Last Supper could not in fact have been a Passover Seder.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Christian historical tradition labels "The Last Supper" a Seder ... not Jesus. He is recorded to have simply called it the "last time He would eat this bread and drink this wine until ...". It was "the time for passover". That Jesus duplicated many Seder rituals seems to be clear from the Gospel accounts ...even if the timing was off. What's the big deal? The REALLY important thing about the Easter events is that Jesus died for humankind's sin nature and sins. Plus, the other big historical event is His resurrection from the grave as proof that God accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of "all who will believe" in Him and what He did for us!
  • That Christians celebrated the Eucharist on a daily or weekly basis (see Acts 2:46–47) underscores the fact that it was not viewed exclusively in a Passover context (otherwise, it would have been performed, like the Passover meal, on an annual basis).
    • Gary Patton
       
      Jesus called us to "do this", i.e., celebrate His sacrifice by eating together as a community of Believers in and Followers of Him. He did not call us to celebrate Passover an eternal commandment for Jews only. Jesus claimed that he had come to fulfill "all the [requirements of the] law and the prophets"!
  • Moreover, while the narrative in the synoptics situates the Last Supper during Passover, the fact remains that the only foods we are told the disciples ate are bread and wine—the basic elements of any formal Jewish meal.
  • “Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant’” (Matthew 26:26–28=Mark 14:22; see also Luke 22:19–20). Is this not a striking parallel to the ways in which Jews celebrating the Seder interpret, for example, the bitter herbs eaten with the Passover sacrifice as representing the bitter life the Israelites experienced as slaves in Egypt?
    • Gary Patton
       
      I'd suggest it is more a replacement of, as I note above, rather than a parallel with a Seder!
  • For many Jews (especially non-Orthodox Jews), the process of development continues, and many modern editions of the Haggadah contain contemporary readings of one sort or another. Even many traditional Jews have, for instance, adapted the Haggadah so that mention can be made of the Holocaust.8
  • Almost everyone doing serious work on the early history of Passover traditions, including Joseph Tabory, Israel Yuval, Lawrence Hoffman, and the father-son team of Shmuel and Ze’ev Safrai, has rejected Finkelstein’s claims for the great antiquity of the bulk of the Passover Haggadah.
  • It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple.b
  • the Holy One, blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
       
      Here may lie the roots of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • King of Kings, the Holy One Blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
       
      As I wonder in the e-Sticky Note immediately above, here may lie the root of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • Might not Jesus be presenting a competing interpretation of these symbols? Possibly. But it really depends on when this Rabban Gamaliel lived. If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • Virtually all scholars working today believe that the Haggadah tradition attributing the words quoted above to Gamaliel refers to the grandson, Rabban Gamaliel the Younger, who lived long after Jesus had died.14 One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • And presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
       
      A Jesus Follower can know that s(he) knows by faith in the accuracy of our Scriptures. The Scriptures make clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant. he explains clearly a NEW symbolism for the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt but... all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • Having determined that the Last Supper was not a Seder and that it probably did not take place on Passover, I must try to account for why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
    • Gary Patton
       
      The Last Supper being a Seder meal on the Day of Passover is NOT the key issue for a Jesus Follower as I mentioned in my e-Sticky Note above. The key on the cotrary is Who Jesus was as the God-man and what he was about to do for us on His cross on cavalry.
  • Another motive relates to a rather practical question: Within a few years after Jesus’ death, Christian communities (which at first consisted primarily of Jews) began to ask when, how and even whether they should celebrate or commemorate the Jewish Passover
  • The Quartodeciman custom of celebrating Easter beginning on the evening following the 14th day apparently began relatively early in Christian history and persisted at least into the fifth century C.E.
  • Early on, a number of Christians—Quartodecimans and others—felt that the appropriate way to mark the Jewish Passover was not with celebration, but with fasting.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Interestingly, no where, that I can find in the Old or New Covenants, does God command or even suggest that His people should fast. I have not extensively researched the issue but, I suspect I'll discover that, this propably is a Jewish ritual that was carried on by early Christians, i.e., another man-made tradition. There is the reference in Matthew 6:16-18 where Jesus says: "When you fast ...." This is NOT a command but simply, in context, an observational reference to a practise that was common among religious Jews ...the group to whom Jesus was speaking. I comment further on this issue in e-Sticky Note on the Matthew 6 Scripture at http://diigo.com/0piw0 and in the article on fasting from Christianity today at http://diigo.com/0p9iv .
  • Thus, until Jesus’ kingdom is fulfilled, Christians should not celebrate at all during Passove
    • Gary Patton
       
      here again, and depsite what Karl Kuhn says, the issue is not celebrating Passover, but Jesus' command to eat together as a group of his Followers whenever we can and "remember" him.
  • By calling the Last Supper a Passover meal, these Jewish-Christians were trying to limit Christian practice in three ways. Like the Passover sacrifice, the recollection of the Last Supper could only be celebrated in Jerusalem, at Passover time, and by Jews.c
    • Gary Patton
       
      This heresy didn't last very long. Some Messianic Jews still today follow Old Covenant feast and other practises that other Christians do not.
  • there are various reasons why the early church would have tried to “Passoverize” the Last Supper tradition.
  • This too is a Passoverization of the Jesus tradition, but it is one that contradicts the identification of the Last Supper with the Seder or Passover meal.
  • Surely the depiction of the Last Supper as a Passover observance could play a part in this larger effort of arguing that Jesus’ death echoes the Exodus from Egypt
  • a widely popular Paschal sermon, which could well be called a “Christian Haggadah,” reflecting at great length on the various connections between the Exodus story and the life of Jesus
    • Gary Patton
       
      Typology as some call it i.e., seeing Old Covenant people, practises and places as 'types' or 'shadows' pointing to or representing Jesus is common in some Christian circles and with some teachers.
  • Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.23 Is it not possible to see the switch from using leavened to unleavened bread as a “Passoverization” of sorts?
    • Gary Patton
       
      And regardless of leavened or unleavened bread or wafers, these kinds of issue are seen by many Jesus Followers as focusing on dead and deadly religious ritual, regalia and rules rather than on relationship, revelation and romance with a living God through Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Gary Patton

"Pagan Christianity" ~ By Frank Viola and George Barna - 0 views

  • ReChurch Your Life
    • Gary Patton
       
      This book and it's follow-up rocked the Christian world because of the difficult truths that it's authors clearly document from Scripture and history. gfp (2012-04-08)
  •  
    This book and it's follow-up rocked the Christian world because of the difficult truths that it's authors clearly document from Scripture and history. gfp (2012-04-08)
Gary Patton

The History & Modern Manifestation of Christian Zionism - Red Letter Christians - 0 views

  • they will eventually push the Palestinian humanity to a point where non-violent resistance will no longer be pursued. 
  • a State that has displaced and oppressed millions of innocent people. 
  • the God of the Bible as was revealed in Jesus does not make justice through injustice, nor does he make peace through violence. Dr. Salim Munayer, professor at Bethlehem Bible College, once said, “Any theology that promotes the oppression of neighbor or enemy isn’t Biblical.”
  • ...1 more annotation...
  • The History & Modern Manifestation of Christian Zionism
Gary Patton

An Atheist's History of Belief by Matthew Kneale - by Tom Holland, British Historian @H... - 1 views

  •  
    Comments on Scientology and it's beliefs
Gary Patton

Islamic violence, Great thinkers of the world and their warnings about - 0 views

  • Great thinkers of the world and their warnings about Islamic violence
  • This is the Communities at WashingtonTimes.com.
  •  
    Here's what wise men of the past have thought about Muhammad and the religion which he spawned onto the world that has resulted in untold deaths that probably exceed those on any other dictator in all of history including Hitler and Stalin. GaryFPatton (gfp '42™ 2012-10-?)
Gary Patton

What Jews (and Christians too) Should Know About the New Testament | Biblical Archaeolo... - 0 views

  •  
    Reading anything in its cultural and historical context helps greatly with understanding and minimizing misunderstanding. 2012-04-07)
Gary Patton

William Wilberforce : Biography - 0 views

  • At seventeen Wilberforce was sent to St. John's College. Following the deaths of his grandfather in 1776 and his childless uncle William in 1777, Wilberforce was an extremely wealthy man. Wilberforce was shocked by the behaviour of his fellow students at the University of Cambridge
  • After leaving university he showed no interest in the family business, and while still at Cambridge he decided to pursue a political career
  • "Wilberforce was little over five feet tall, a frail and elfin figure who in his later years weighed well under 100 pounds. His charm was legendary, his conversation delightful, his oratory impressive. He dressed in the colourful finery of the day and adorned any salon with his amiable manner.
  • ...49 more annotations...
  • his object in life - no less than the transformation of a corrupt society through serious religion
  • In 1784 Wilberforce became converted to Evangelical Christianity. He joined the Clapham Set,
  • In 1787 Thomas Clarkson, William Dillwyn and Granville Sharp formed the Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade.
  • nine out of the twelve members on the committee, were Quakers.
  • Wilberforce's nephew, George Stephen, was surprised by this choice as he considered him a lazy man: "He worked out nothing for himself; he was destitute of system, and desultory in his habits; he depended on others for information, and he required an intellectual walking stick."
  • writing, on the other hand, was to be discouraged, since it would open the way to rising above one's natural station."
    • Gary Patton
       
      When you're starving, "half a loaf is beter than none"! And God seldom uses perfect people to advance His Kingdom!
  • In May 1788, Charles Fox precipitated the first parliamentary debate on the issue.
  • Charles Fox was unsure of Wilberforce's commitment to the anti-slavery campaign.
  • "Following the publication of the privy council report on 25 April 1789, Wilberforce marked his own delayed formal entry into the parliamentary campaign on 12 May with a closely reasoned speech of three and a half hours,
  • "Everyone thought the hearing would be brief, perhaps one sitting. Instead, the slaving interests prolonged it so skilfully that when the House adjourned on 23 June, their witnesses were still testifying."
  • on 10th July 1789: "Whether the bill goes through the House or not, the discussion attending it will have a most beneficial effect.
  • the visit was a failure as Clarkson could not persuade the French National Assembly to discuss the abolition of the slave trade
  • the government published A Declaration of the Rights of Man asserting that all men were born and remained free and equal. However
  • During this period he could only find twenty men willing to testify before the House of Commons. He later recalled: "I was disgusted... to find how little men were disposed to make sacrifices for so great a cause."
    • Gary Patton
       
      "Seldom do great and difficult quests proceed with ease!" ~ gfp
  • Wilberforce initially welcomed the French Revolution as he believed that the new government would abolish the country's slave trade.
  • Wilberforce believed that the support for the French Revolution by the leading members of the Society for the Abolition of Slave Trade was creating difficulties for his attempts to bring an end to the slave trade in the House of Commons.
  • On 18th April 1791 Wilberforce introduced a bill to abolish the slave trade.
  • "a war of the pigmies against the giants of the House".
  • defeated by 163 to 88.
  • In March 1796, Wilberforce's proposal to abolish the slave trade was defeated in the House of Commons by only four votes.
  • a dozen abolitionist MPs were out of town or at the new comic opera in London.
  • In 1804, Clarkson returned to his campaign against the slave trade and toured the country
    • Gary Patton
       
      Note that Clarkson's 'rest' lasted about 8 years and Wilberforce is not here noted to have advanced the cause during Clarson's absence from the frey. But, who among avserage men has heard of Thomas Clarkson as winning the abolitionists cause against slavery?
  • William Wilberforce introduced an abolition bill on 30th May 1804.
  • In 1805 the bill was once again presented to the House of Commons. This time the pro-slave trade MPs were better organised and it was defeated by seven votes.
  • advised Wilberforce to leave the vote to the following year.
  • t moved to the House of Lords.
  • In February, 1806 Lord Grenville was invited by the king to form a new Whig administration.
  • Grenville's Foreign Secretary, Charles Fox, led the campaign in the House of Commons to ban the slave trade in captured colonies.
  • was little opposition and it was passed by an overwhelming 114 to 15.
  • In the House of Lords Lord Greenville made a passionate speech
  • the bill was passed in the House of Lords by 41 votes to 20.
  • In January 1807 Lord Grenville introduced a bill that would stop the trade to British colonies on grounds of "justice, humanity and sound policy".
  • "Lord Grenville masterminded the victory which had eluded the abolitionist for so long...
  • Wilberforce commented: "How popular Abolition is, just now! God can turn the hearts of men".
    • Gary Patton
       
      However, the Bible itself does not make a strong case for the abolition of slavery and really only for the equality of men before God and in his Kingdom ...not in the world!
  • The trade was abolished by a resounding 283 to 16.
  • it was the largest majority recorded on any issue where the House divided.
  • a generous tribute to the work of Wilberforce:
  • Some people involved in the anti-slave trade campaign such as Thomas Fowell Buxton, argued that the only way to end the suffering of the slaves was to make slavery illegal. Wilberforce disagreed, he believed that at this time slaves were not ready to be granted their freedom. He pointed out in a pamphlet that he wrote in 1807 that: "It would be wrong to emancipate (the slaves). To grant freedom to them immediately, would be to insure not only their masters' ruin, but their own. They must (first) be trained and educated for freedom."
  • In July, 1807, members of the Society for the Abolition of Slave Trade established the African Institution, an organization that was committed to watch over the execution of the law, seek a ban on the slave trade by foreign powers and to promote the "civilization and happiness" of Africa.
  • The African Institution carried the torch for antislavery reform for twenty years and paved the way for later humanitarian efforts in Great Britain."
  • Wilberforce made it clear that he considered the African Institution should do what it could to convert Africans to Christianity.
  • we ought to rejoice in every opportunity of bringing them under their present sufferings, and secure for them a rich compensation of reversionary happiness."
  • (Perronet Thompson) single-handedly abolished apprenticeship and freed the slaves. He filed scandalised reports to the colonial office. Wilberforce told him he was being rash and hasty, and he and his colleagues voted unanimously for his dismissal. Wilberforce advised him to go quietly for the sake of his career."
  • the Society for the Mitigation and Gradual Abolition of Slavery. Buxton eventually persuaded Wilberforce to join his campaign but as he had retired from the House of Commons in 1825, he did not play an important part in persuading Parliament to bring an end to slavery.
  • William Wilberforce died on 29th July, 1833. One month later, Parliament passed the Slavery Abolition Act that gave all slaves in the British Empire their freedom.
  • How far the memoir was Christian, I must leave to others to decide. That it was unfair to Clarkson is not disputed. Where possible, the authors ignored Clarkson; where they could not they disparaged him. In the whole rambling work, using the thousands of documents available to them, they found no space for anything illustrating the mutual affection and regard between the two great men, or between Wilberforce and Clarkson's brother."
  • Wilson goes on to argue that the book has completely distorted the history of the campaign against the slave-trade: "The Life has been treated as an authoritative source for 150 years of histories and biographies
  • its treatment of Clarkson, in particular, a deservedly towering figure in the abolition struggle, is invalidated by untruths, omissions and misrepresentations of his motives and his achievements is not understood by later generations, unfamiliar with the jealousy that motivated the holy authors. When all the contemporary shouting had died away, the Life survived to take from Clarkson both his fame and his good name.
  • left us with the simplistic myth of Wilberforce and his evangelical warriors in a holy crusade.
  •  
    Some key bibliographical background on the famous Englishman who, allegedly, was single-handedly responsible for the freeing of slaves in the British Empire after many years of fighting in thr English Parliament.
  •  
    So you thought William Wilberforce was responsible for getting England to abolish slavery, eh? Not so! gfp
Gary Patton

The Cloak of Antichrist in Bible Prophecy - 0 views

    • Gary Patton
       
      Don't miss the outline and my annotations below because this book argues that Satan's favourite disguise when appearing to human beings is in the form of 'religion'. If this be Biblically true, as the author attempts to prove, then organized religion in all it forms, not just Islam, is the REAL enemy that Ephesians 6:12 says every Jesus Follower fights against as his/her most dangerous foe, not people, at http://diigo.com/0jl35">http://diigo.com/0jl35" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://diigo.com/0jl35. (I'd argue if the author is correct, that Islam is our greatest physical adversary but traditional, organized religion of every stripe, including Christian denominations, is our potential, greatest spiritual enemy in the last days i.e., read the Book of Jude. gfp (2012-01-15)
  • He really doesn't carry a pitch fork and have a long red tail and two horns.  Yet, he is a master at disguise.  Got any ideas of his favorite?  Masquerade, that is?  
  • satan is in disguise -- even in the Garden of Eden.  The reason?  Because that is how he appears before humanity.  
  • ...27 more annotations...
  • His best disguise?  Religion.
  • the "bomb throwers" of Islam are not the aberration of true Islam; but rather, they are the actual root.
  • The Bible gives us "identifiers" to be able to locate him.  They are called "antichrist." 
  • Whenever the antichrist identifiers are present, satan is present. 
    • Gary Patton
       
      The author means Satan's influence is present in the form of his diabolical power exercised by his troops, demons. Only Almighty God is everywhere-present, all-powerful and all-knowing according to the Bible.
  • When antichrist is present, satan has left his "fingerprints" behind. 
  • Since its inception in the 7th century AD, Islam has waged holy war, jihad, against anyone who stood in its way. 
    • Gary Patton
       
      Jihad is an Arabic word that describes the peaceful or violent expansion of Islam as "the only way" as stated in the Constitution of the Muslim Brotherhood. This monstrous and multiple-tentacled organization was founded and is headquartered in Egypt. It operates stealth-jihad organizations funded by Saudi Arabian, Wahhabi-sect money in every non-Muslim democracy and other country in the world according to experts in Islamic terrorism like Raymond Ibrahim and Tawfik Hamid. However, most Westerners fear AlQaeda the most. In the statements of all violent Jihadists and their groups directed at European or American audiences, they maintain that the terrorism they inflict on the West is merely reciprocal treatment for decades of Western and Israeli oppression. (The common term used by many American politicians for this is "blowback".) Yet in writings directed to their fellow Muslims, their hatred is presented, not as a reaction to military or political provocation, but as a product of religious obligation. For instance, when addressing Western audiences, Osama bin Laden used to list any number of grievances as motivating his war on the West. These included, among others, from the oppression of the Palestinians to the Western exploitation of women, and even U.S. failure to sign the environmental Kyoto protocol. All these were designed to be intelligible from a Western perspective and mask their real intent using taqiyya, Qur'anic approved "liefare". However never once, according to Raymond Ibrahim, did bin Laden justify Al-Qaeda's attacks on Western targets simply because non-Muslim countries are infidel entities that must be subjugated ...as violent Jihadists read the Qur'an. Indeed, he often initiates his messages to the West by saying, "Reciprocal treatment is part of justice" or "Peace to whoever follows guidance". Regrettably, he means something entirely different from what his Western listeners understand by words such as "peace," "justice," or "guidance." Wes
  • All of these wars are spiritual in nature-- not political.  Islam is one of two world empires that has waged holy war against Jews and Christians. 
  • The Bible calls him, Abaddon, the Hebrew name for "destroyer."  Islam calls him, al-Mahdi, "master of the sword," and the "long awaited one."
    • Gary Patton
       
      al-Mahadi or "Twelfth Imam" In Shi'a Islam, al-Mahdi will come at the end of days to bring the world to Islam for Allah. he will arrive in the midst of man-created world chaos or cause it after his arrival. His followers are called "Twelvers". The top government leaders of Iran and the real leaders, the "Mullahs" are Twelvers and based on a secret, recent video they released to their military and others, they believe only chaos will bring him back to earth. Joel Rosenberg, author of "The Twelfth Imam", and others argue they wish to expedite the Madhi's return by raining nuclear chaos on the Middle East i.e., on Israel, thereby creating the necessary ingerdients for his return. Sunni Muslim theology also includes a belief in, plus an eschatological* expectation of, the "Twelfth Imam" or the Mahdi, according to Mr. Rosenberg. * es·cha·tol·o·gy (sk-tl-j) n. 1. The branch of theology that is concerned with the end of the world or of humankind. 2. A belief or a doctrine concerning the ultimate or final things, such as death, the destiny of humanity, the Second Coming, or the Last Judgement.
  • To Christians, he is the last "false prophet, i.e., the Antichrist.  To Shia Islam, he is al-Mahdi. 
    • Gary Patton
       
      Sunni Muslim theology also includes a belief in, plus an eschatological* expectation of, the "Twelfth Imam" or the Mahdi, according to Mr. Rosenberg.
  • The chapters below are not final, but drafts that eventually made their way to final form in the recently published book.
  • Islam, as a religion, somehow survived the death of the one so crucial to its existence.  Against all odds, Islam grew to be a voracious kingdom in an unbelievably short period of time.
  • seven separate periods in Islamic history begin.
  • Think about it.  Ten horns, seven heads, and ten diadems; and, Islam fufills both counts.
  • In the Last Days, Islam's Last Caliphate will arise.  Led by Muhammad al-Mahdi, an Alliance of ten muslim nations or groups will unite. 
  • all Islam will unite under Muhammad al-Mahdi.
  • the "revived Caliphate," will usher in the Last Days.
  • This chapter will reveal another detail of Revelation 17's scarlet beast.  The beast is al-Mahdi; the empire is the Revived (and last) Islamic Caliphate. 
  • Don't think for a moment that "Babylon" identifies this harlot as modern Iraq, and the ancient city of Babylon
  • The harlot is wealthy, and she has made the merchants of the world rich and great from her "wine."
  • What is the one substance that the entire world cannot do without?  The woman?  Find the highest "towers" in the land of Islam and you will find the harlot who has built them. 
    • Gary Patton
       
      The author is VERY knowldgeable about the Christian Bible, Islam and history. His analysis is VERY well developed and suggests "wine" is oil and "the woman" is Saudi Arabia and her predecessors.
  • Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam.  The owner of the world's largest proven oil and gas reserves. 
  • We move to the final stages of the Last Days as an Alliance of nations is prophesied to attack Israel.  The leader of the attack is named in prophetic scripture: "Gog."  He is "prince" of the "land of Magog," and the leader of three "nations" from the land of Magog, "Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." 
  • nations of the Middle East, Asia, and Africa, including Iran, Turkey, Ethiopia, Armenia, and Libya. 
  • This chapter will interpret Russia to be the key nation in this Alliance against Israel, along with Iran as the lead nation from the Middle East.
  • A most important element of this victory is not that the Muslim nations of the world are defeated, but that the Spirit of God is "poured out upon Israel," an event that can only be fulfilled with the return of Jesus Christ, and Israel's acknowledgment of Jesus as Messiah. 
  • The time of tribulation has arrived, a seven year period the Bible describes as a "time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time" (Daniel 12:1). 
  • Satan and his agents will have their way until God extends His sickle and pours out His wrath upon the "sons of disobedience." 
    • Gary Patton
       
      In his book, "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", Marvin Rosenthal, outlines a powerful, Biblical analysis of the Old and New Covenants regarding when the so-called "Rapture" of Jesus Followers takes place. Mr. Rosenthal concludes from his well-documented, clear, easy-to-understand and graphics-supported analysis that the commonly-believed "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" theological position of most North American Bible teachers is inaccurate and not supported by a careful Biblical analysis. You can read a short, well-done summary of Mr. Rosenthal's thesis by another Bible teacher at http://diigo.com/0mhvg.
  •  
    This book argues that Stan's favourite disguise when appearing to human beings is in the form of 'religion'. If this be Biblically true, as the author attempts to prove, then religion is against what Ephesians 6:12 says every Jesus Follower fights against as his/her most dangerous enemy. gfp (2012-01-15)
Gary Patton

Red Letter Christians » The Power of Being a Partial Bible Christian! - 0 views

  • the whole history of the church was changed. It was – as usual – not the whole 775,693 words of the whole bible, but the intensity of the few words in specific passages that had the power.
    • Gary Patton
       
      I believe God will attach varying levels of "power" for different people at different times to different passages of Scripture because He is a God who deals with each one of His creations UNIQUELY. Yes, "all Scripture is inspired". But, to be a "PBC" for a moment (Partial Bible Christian), I'll remind you that Scripture also says in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that the wo(man) who is not inspired by Holy Spirit cannot accept what he writes in His "good news" whatever version s(he) uses!
  • The activists, the evangelicals, the Pentecostals, and yes, the conservatives and the liberals, can drive us nuts. They are forever telling us that THEY have the truth. And they can make us feel like second-class citizens sometimes, when we do not go along with everything they say. They make me long for “Whole Bible Christians” who leave me alone. But, my friends, it is the folks whose lives are renewed, defined and driven by their favorite verses and passages who are the ones who bring life to the church, who model for us what it means to take discipleship seriously, who make history.
  • we are focused with laser intensity in the words Jesus spoke. Those words are the text for the sermon we call our lives. We find power in those words. We find direction. We find purpose. We find life itself.  In that sense we dare to stand with the great company of “Partial Bible Christians” who have served the Lord faithfully across the centuries.
  •  
    Yes, all scripture is "God-breathed" or "inspired". But not all 31,373 verses carry the same weight for our faith in Yeshua/Jesus. gfp (2012-03-01
Gary Patton

Religious Minorities in an increasingly intolerant Middle East :: Daniel Pipes - 0 views

  •  
    This video is a 30 min. speech to a group in Switzerland by Daniel Pipes, an expert in Islam and it's history. In it Mr. Pipes provides a brief survey of Christian/Jewish relations with Muslims in Muslim-majority nations down the through the ages. He documents an unprecedented shift towards a genocidal bias against the "People of the Book" by Muslims, particularly in the Middle East. Islamists, Strret Muslims and their governments Muslims are currently pursuing genocide, he documents, rather than the second-class citizenship (d'himmitude) that was used to control non-Muslim minorities before 1800 ...the start of the Modern Era. He offers little hope for continued survival of non-Muslims communities throughout Muslim-controlled lands. And he is pessimistic that Western nations will offer a way out for the persecuted minorities, mostly Christians.
Gary Patton

Essays on James ...Jesus' Brother - 1 views

  •  
    HELPFUL, CONCISE Info
Gary Patton

Crusade Myths - 1 views

As with any investigation into history, we run the risk of oversimplifying the issues involved or looking at the events from one side only, either seeing only the good actions or only the bad actio...

islam islamism islamization jihad crusades

started by Gary Patton on 13 Jan 13 no follow-up yet
Gary Patton

"Eurabia" : National Review Online - 0 views

  • eptember 11, 2001 was for millions worldwide a day of sorrow, pain, and profound sadness; a day of solemn solidarity, self-sacrifice, and prayer.
  • For others it was a day of rejoicing, a revengeful exultation, a long-awaited triumphalism born from the death and suffering of thousands of innocent victims.
  • For iniquity engulfs those who hate, who kill — and not the hated victim. It is those who hate who are sick: sick from envy; sick from the frustration of having failed to achieve an absolute, pathological domination; sick from a schizophrenic lust for power.
  • ...25 more annotations...
  • Terrorism is not a consequence of poverty. Many societies are poor, yet they do not produce an organized criminality of terror.
  • America should not choose European ways: the road back to Munich via appeasement, collaboration, and dhimmitude.
  • After the Yom Kippur War and the Arab oil blackmail in 1973, the then-European Community (EC) created a structure of Cooperation and Dialogue with the Arab League. The Euro-Arab Dialogue (EAD)
  • Over the years, Euro-Arab collaboration developed at all levels: political, economic, religious and in the transfer of technologies, education, universities, radio, television, press, publishers, and writers unions. This structure became the channel for Arab immigration into Europe, of anti-Americanism, and of Judeophobia, which — linked with a general hatred of the West and its denigration — constituted a pseudo-culture imported from Arab countries.
  • The interpenetration of European and Arab policies determined Europe's relentless anti-Israel policy and its anti-Americanism. This politico-economic edifice, with minute details, is rooted in a multiform European symbiosis with the Arab world.
  • The EAD was the vehicle for legitimizing the propaganda of the PLO, procuring it international diplomatic recognition, and conferring on Arafat's terrorist movement honor and international stature by supporting Arafat's address to the General Assembly of the United Nations on November 13, 1974 .
  • Through the labyrinth of the EAD system, a policy of Israel's delegitimization was planned at both the EC's national and international levels.
  • The cultural infrastructure of the EAD allowed the traditional cultural baggage of Arab societies, with its anti-Christian and anti-Jewish prejudices and its hostility against Israel and the West, to be imported into Europe.
  • Strategically, the Euro-Arab Cooperation was a political instrument for anti-Americanism in Europe, whose aim was to separate and weaken the two continents by an incitement to hostility and the permanent denigration of American policy in the Middle East .
  • The EAD was the mouthpiece which diffused and popularized throughout Europe the defamation of Israel. France, Belgium, and Luxembourg were then the most active agents of the EAD.
  • Europeans adopted the Arab-Islamic conception of history.
  • Europe's pathological obsession with the Arab-Palestinian conflict, has obscured the criminal ongoing persecution of Christians and other minorities in Muslim lands worldwide, and the sufferings and slavery of millions from jihad wars in Africa and Asia.
  • The cogs created by the EAD led the EC (later the European Union) to tolerate Palestinian terrorism on its own territory, to justify it, and finally to finance Palestinian infrastructure — later to become the Palestinian Authority — and hate-mongering educational system. The ministers and intellectuals who have created Eurabia deny the current wave of criminal attacks against European Jews, which they, themselves, have inspired.
  • The EAD, which had tied Arab strategic policies for the destruction of Israel to the European economy was the Trojan horse for Europe's inclusion into the orbit of Arab-Muslim influence.
  • With the support of parliaments and ministries, the EAD concealed behind the Arab-Israel conflict the global jihad being perpetrated on all continents.
  • Arab-Israel conflict in international affairs. It could have been solved from the start by the integration of about 500,000 Arab-Palestinian refugees into the Arab League countries, foremost into the Emirate of Transjordan — created by Great Britain in 1922 from 78 percent of the total League of Nation mandated area of Palestine, the historical Holy Land on both sides of the Jordan river.
  • the leaders of their countries looked the other way and pretended that Israel was responsible for the violent aggressions against Jews in Europe by Arab-Muslim immigrants.
  • brought responsible politicians to their senses. They had been blinded by a Palestinian fantasy
  • The suppression of intellectual freedom imported from undemocratic Muslim countries, attached to a culture of hate against Israel, has recently led to the exclusion and boycott of Israeli academics by some of their European colleagues.
  • the desperate move to save Arafat
  • Over 50 years ago the Shoah was the response to Zionism. Today, diaspora Jews and Israel would do well to foresee a possible vengeful reckoning after Saddam Hussein falls and Arafat is marginalized
    • Gary Patton
       
      The "Shoah" (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews and millions of others during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, throughout Nazi-occupied territory. Of the nine million Jews who had resided in Europe before the Holocaust, approximately two-thirds perished.
  • anti-Jewish hysteria in Europe was an advertisement to neutralize diaspora Jews, and the Israeli self-defense mechanism against Palestinian terror,
  • the European Union continues to caper to new Arab-Islamic tunes, now called "occupation," "peace and justice," and "immigrants' rights" — themes which were composed for Israel's burial. And for Europe's demise.
  • the majority of Europeans, who are not antisemitic, are totally unaware of most of the EAD's policy, since its key deliberations are unrecorded.
  • Eurabia
  •  
    Bat Yeor is an Arab, Jewis historian from Egypt. I discovered this article by her some years ago after reading one of her books. Some of the facts in this short article are now dated. Her compelling, scary and well-documented thesis is not! Here, Ms. Yoer explains her thesis regarding the stealth jihad strategy engineered by Arab Islamists which is behind the Muslim immigration that's threatening to overwhelm European culture. (I believe her thesis applies worldwide.) Here she also explains the hateful, demonic root underpinning the revival and resurgence of anti-Semitism throughout Europe. Elsewhere, Ms. Yeor also documents how the Islamists have expanded on their own dissimilitude, called a-taqiyya in Qur'anic Arabic, by using "lie-fare" & "law-fare". They learned the former from those who drove Joseph Goebels' Nazi propaganda campaign and who fled to the Middle East after WWII. They learned the latter from the brialiant but sad successes of the homosexual lobby in this field.
Gary Patton

"Islam, How it works" - 0 views

  • It is a comprehensive system regulating all areas of life. There is no separation between religion here, politics there, law there — therefore none between Islam and Islamism, either. Islamism is not an abuse of Islam, because Islam is different from our worldview.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Many Muslims don't like the terms 'Islamism' and 'Islamist'. They say the former confuses a political ideology with a religion and, the latter confuses a moderate Muslim with a violent Jihadist. This expert argues there is NO need to make a distinction because there is none needed because they all mean the same the same! Oh my! Are Westerners being 'conned' by liberal, politically-correct media terminology when they use Islam/Islamism distinction? Is it really Muslim taqiyya (dissimulation)? gfp (2011-10-27)
  • the Islamic norms and values system regulates the living together in Muslim societies far beyond the religious realm in the narrow sense of the word: without Islam they could not work at all.
  • you needn’t be an Islamic scientist to analyze the sociology of Islam.
    • Gary Patton
       
      One may not need to be an Islamic scientist. But, given the danger of western cultural biases that the author mentions below (highligted in red), westerners may NOT understand Islam and the Islamic mind. A further danger is that violent Jihadists use taqiyya (dissimulation) to launch and perpetuate proganda lies. gfp (2011-10-27)
  • ...22 more annotations...
  • the role of religion in the social fabric of Islamic societies is quite different from that of Christianity in ours. Islam does not only relate humans to the hereafter, like all religions do, and determine what is good and evil, but it also defines what is legal or illegal in a juridical sense, legitimate and illegitimate in a political sense, true and untrue in an empirical sense. Islam is, so to speak, the DNA of its societies: not only a religion but a social system.
  • Religions shapes the system of culturally valid and (by socialization) internalized pre-assumptions about issues such as truth, justice, morality, ethics, society, or violence; i.e. all the assumptions that precede actual political thinking.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This a dangerous key to Westerners' failure to understand Islam & what we, not Muslims, have labeled Islamism. Islamism is distinguished in the West from Islam as a political ideology. Islam, itself, is a political ideology. gfp (2011-10-27)
  • these assumptions are not just shared in Islam
  • We use a certain terminology fit for describing our own culture, but not fit for that of Islam.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This is very wise observation. Given this crucial point, the imporatnt question that arises is how do non-Muslims guard against the trap of cultural misalignment mistakes. I believe only Jesus Followers are eqipped to do this consistently and well because the power of Holy Spirit is available to us when we choose to walk in it and Him! (Galatians 5:16 &25) gfp
  • the widespread assumption in this country under which we perceive Islam — that all religions are equal or “want the same thing” — is misleading.
  • Islam does not generally outlaw violence, not even in a strictly moral sense.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This is a demonic opposite of Jesus' commands to His Followers to be non-violent and wage peace ...not war. e.g. Matthew 5:38-45 However, when dealing with criminality, violent Muslim jihadism or other activities by which people can be harmed, Jesus did not tell us to hold our peace and be passive D.O.O.R.M.A.T.S. (Dependent Order Of Really Miserable And Timid Souls). e.g. Matthew 23:23-33
  • Blaise Pascal once said. “Jesus let himself be killed, Muhammad himself killed”.
    • Gary Patton
       
      With even more contarst, I'd suggest: "Jesus teaches His Followers to wage peace and allowed Himself to be murdered; Muhammad teaches his followers to wage war and himself murdered others!" ~ gfp '42™
  • Violence in Islam has a structuring function: it makes a difference between above and below, i.e. master and slave, men and women, believers and unbelievers. Islam doesn’t define peace as a universal principle.
  • The Islamic concept of society is based on the division of humanity into “believers” and “infidels” — and Islam leaves no doubt that the “infidels” sooner or later have to disappear in history. “Good” in the ethical sense, is what is good for the spread of Islam; “evil” is any opposition to it
  • No, “Islam” means, in friendly translation, “devotion” and less friendly, “submission”. The word is derived from the same word-root as “Salam” (peace), but it is not a synonym.
  • it creates a tacit social acceptance of violence, provided it is directed against the “infidels”, even among those Muslims who are not individually violent.
  • Jihad is not just war. It includes anything Muslims do to bring the world under the law of Allah.
  • Therefore, I conceive Islam as a Jihad System.
  • the Koran refers in the latest, the Medinan suras — which are in any doubt, the decisive — relatively little to the “greater” jihad, the struggle for one’s own faith, compared with the struggle against the “infidels”, the so-called “lesser” jihad which is crucial in these suras.
  • Islam rejects the notion of a universal ethics by which all people have equal rights, no matter what religion they belong to, or peace as a matter of principle. Such views contradict not only the teachings of Islam, but its basic structure.
  • Islamism is only the political side of Islam, that is, in fact, no degeneration, but a part of this religion. The Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan has said quite rightly that there is no radical and no moderate Islam, but only Islam.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Succintly put!
  • The idea of an Islam without Sharia law is absurd, that would be — not like soup without salt, but like soup without water. Therefore, Islamists are quite correct when claiming to be in harmony with the Prophet and the Koran. And consequently these Islamists are not socially isolated, but very respected for their strong faith and respected members of the Islamic community.
  • Couldn’t there be an Islamic Enlightenment
    • Gary Patton
       
      Dr. Tawfik Hamid, among others including some Islamic scholars, would agree this is possible and fight at risk to their lives for its arrival. Tawfik argues that there is a big difference between fundamentalist, Qur'anic Islam, correctly interpreted, and what is promoted by all Islamic judicial jurisdictions. So Muslims who feel like Dr. Hamid are very much alone among the approximately 3.5 billion Muslims world-wide. His Website is www.tawfikhamid.com where he operates as a Muslim "voice calling in the wilderness".
  • Firstly, I repeat: That would undermine the basis of Islamic societies. Therefore, there is enormous social pressure which prevents this. Secondly, Islam itself is already in some ways a kind of “enlightenment” as Islam has questioned anything in Christianity that is paradoxical and dialectical, sometimes incomprehensible, and to bring it to a simple formula:
  • was our Reformation something moderate?
    • Gary Patton
       
      Some prominet & well-known Christian writers argue that the Christian "Reformation" actually reformed very little of what was and still is variants of what is really paganism. They document from a variety of historical sources, including the Christian Bible, that pagan practises are what are practised on Sunday morning by most traditional Protestant denominations in addition to both the Roman & Orthodox Catholic Churches. Pastor Frank Viola's book, where you can learn more about this thesis, is called "Pagan Christianity". Reverend Viola argues that Christians are NOT pagans, but their traditional Western churches and church practises are. gfp (2011-10-27)
  • in Islam, as a “back to the roots”, means just the opposite, emphasizing the validity of the political model of the original community of the Prophet, whose political profile I’ve already described.
  • there are already first indications of an Islamist turn of these revolutions,
    • Gary Patton
       
      Some of my Muslim Friends who live in Canada make an even scarier case than this author. My Friends are well-tuned to accurate sources of Muslim and other information other than the politically-correct and often-leftist, western media. These Friends argue that all the current talk about Arab Spring democracy rising from the ashes of Afghanistan, Egypt, Tunisia, and as I write, Libya is absolute and utter nonsense. One well-informed Friend says that the prior leader of Al-Qaeda in Libya has returned to the devastated country and is firmly in control of most anti-Qaddafi forces. Al-Qaeda people will win any election held in Libya in the coming months, according to him. No commentator or group that I've heard or read at this writing, including the internationally-respected and knowledgeable Stratfor, the geo-politcal analyst group, has yet to even hint at this reality. That the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood will engineer the same coup in Egypt is being suggested in some quarters, already. I sense the same radical Jihadish coup will take place in Arab countries, possibly even Saudi Arabia, all across the Middle East and North Africa. And I bet it will be accomplished under the noses of Western political leaders who will pay for and host the forthcoming elections at great expense to western taxpayers to extend democracy. Duh! I also sense a modern Muslim Caliphate is in the birth canal of the 21st century with Satan as both the father and mid-wife. I'm awaiting with interest to see what the living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will allow and whom will be the wet-nurse, anti-Christ whom emerges to lead it. (Turkey's Ardogan is already in the running according to some experts.) gfp (2011-10-27)
Gary Patton

A Comprehensive Look at Genesis 3 | The Bare Times - 0 views

  • In verse 21, God mercifully provides coats of skin for Adam and Eve. People view the slaughtering of the animal as God’s start of the sacrificial system for ancient Israel because something died to cover their sin.
    • Gary Patton
       
      One is wise to note that God did so only AFTER Adam and Eve had gone into the clothing business and covered their so-called "private parts". God did not design man to wear clothes except as protection which is why He may have replaced the foliage with the more sturdy animal skins as He sent them into the "cold cruel" world! The sacrifice of the animals to cover the sins, not the bodies, of human kind also presages the ultimate and future sacrifice of Yesus (Jesus) for the sins and sin of those whom would trust in Him and it in the "fullness of time".
  • after the fall, Adam saw his body as shameful; even while God did not say the body was evil after the fall.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Satan cons modern Christians, I believe, with diabolically-generated shame to believe the opposite untruth i.e. public nudity is shameful and unBiblical. Could not Adam's reference in Genesis to his shame have been about his disobedience rather than about his being naked? Old Testament ceremonial washings, including baptism, were performed in the nude. [Note 1 - Please don't hestitate to contact me if you would like the details for the source of this or any of the other historical facts included below. I'm a trained historian and also like to see the documentation for so-called facts that are not commonly accepted.] Christ, too, was probably baptized naked, as depicted in numerous early works of art. [2] Early Christians bathed communally in the nude at the public baths or public places during most of the second through the fourth centuries. This was common practise in Rome for hundreds of years at all levels of society. Public nudity was also common during this period in other parts of ancient Roman society. The writings of early Christians such as Irenaeus and Tertullian make it clear that they had no ethical reservations about communal nudity for Christians. [3] Christian historian Roy Bowen Ward confirms based on his research that "Christian Morality did not originally preclude nudity. . . . There is a tendency to read history backward and assume that early Christians thought the same way mainstream Christians do today. We attribute the present to the past." [4] For the first several centuries of Christianity, it was the intentional custom to baptize men, women, and children together nude. This ritual played a very significant role in the early church. The accounts are numerous and detailed. [5] Margaret Miles, a historian and author, notes that "Naked baptism was observed as one of the two essential elements in Christian initiation, along with the invocation of the Trinity. . . . In the fourth century, instructions for baptism throughout the Roman Emp
  •  
    This article outlines what the anonymous but Biblically astute author feels God says about nakedness at the time of creation.
Gary Patton

An Open Letter to America's Christian Zionists | The New Evangelical Partnership for th... - 0 views

  • An Open Letter to America’s Christian Zionists
  •  
    A point of view by two Christian "Ethics Professors at US theological schools which argues that "Christian Zionism" cannot be supported Biblically. The authors further state that Christians who support Israel's alleged inhumanity towards the so-called Palestinians will be judged by God. gfp (2012-06-20)
Gary Patton

Q: What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? - 0 views

shared by Gary Patton on 04 Nov 13 - No Cached
  • There is subordination within the Trinity.
    • Gary Patton
       
      An argument can be made that at least Jesus and The Father are co-equal, some Christians say. I also hold this belief because the references to Jesus' subservience to His Father are made by the God-man. Jesus is fully God but also fully man. Jesus makes clear that His miracles all were performed by His Father or Holy spirt. Therefore I believe that until Jesus returned to Heaven, He operated on earth without His Godly powers which He'd left behind. As a special human, Jesus therefore, was truly subservient to the other dimensions of God. The passages seemingly ascribing Holy Spirit's alleged subservience to The Fater and Jesus, I suggest could also be described as 'deference' rather than 'subservience'.
  • An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
    • Gary Patton
       
      While, I agree, of course, Michael does not mention what I feel is the best analogy, i.e., I am my Father's son, the husband of my wife, Karen, and the Father of my daughter, Shawna. These three dimensions are different aspects of the same, one being who is also a spirit in a temporary earth suit because I have the image of God Who is spirit. (Genesis 1:7)
  • The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Contrary to what some might feel that Michael is writing here, The Trinity is NOT a divisive doctrine among those who Follow Jesus only among non-Followers. It's a "rock" on which most non-Followers of Jesus stumble" (Luke 7:22-23 at http://goo.gl/hNMmAV). The Trinity is a core belief of our faith in God, The Father (Genesis 1:1) and His salvation through God the Son's, Yeshuaoh's/Jesus', death and resurrection (Romans 10:8-12), plus our empowerment through God, The Holy Spirit, living in us (1 Corinthianss 6:19). As Followers of God, "The One & Only", Who is NOT Allah of the Muslims of Islam or the gods of the polytheistic religionists, we believe in the Trinity, as truth, "in faith" ..."being sure of what we hope for (Biblically: 'know') and certain of what we cannot see". (Hebrews 11:1 & 6) GaryFPatton (2013-11-04 gfp '42)
1 - 17 of 17
Showing 20 items per page