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Gary Edwards

Re: [office-comment] Public Comment - 0 views

lists.oasis-open.org/...msg00016.html

shared by Gary Edwards on 23 Jan 08 - Cached
  • Regarding section 1.5 itself: The Open Office TC decided to use the term MAY rather than MUST (or will) at the mentioned location, because it wanted to ensure that the OpenDocument specification can be used by as many implementations as possible. This means that the format should also be usable by applications that only support a very small subset of the specification, as long as the information that these applications store can be represented using the OpenDocument format. A requirement that all foreign elements and attributes must be preserved actually would mean that some applications may not use the format, although the format itself would be suitable. Therefor, we leave it up to the implementations, which elements and attributes of the specification they support, and whether they preserve foreign element and attributes. Some more information about this can be found in appendix D of the specification.
    • Gary Edwards
      Gary Edwards on 23 Jan 08
       
      This OASIS ODF discussion is about the Compliance - conformance clause of the ODF specification: Section 1.5. A developer has complained that use of MAY instead of MUST in the wording of the clause would enable conforming applications to destroy foreign elements and alien attribute markup at will. This of course would result in ZERO Interoeprability!!!!! The foreign elments and alien attributes were included for the purposes of improved ODF compatibility with the billions of MSOffice binary documents that would need to be converted to ODF. Sadly, the section 1.5 loop hole falls short of the compatibility goal, but that only begins to scratch the surface of the ODF problems. OpenOffice only supports foreign elements and alien attributes for text spans, and paragraphs!!!!!! All other such markup is unrecognized and therefore "destroyed" by OpenOffice. ZERO interop. No roundtripping with MSOffice desktops. Lossy conversion with jagged fidelity. Guaranteed.
Gary Edwards

Microsoft Hit By U.S. DOT Ban On Windows Vista, Explorer 7, and Office 2007 - Technolog... - 0 views

www.informationweek.com/...showArticle.jhtml

exchange/sharepoint government msoffice odf opendocument standards vista vistachain vistastack

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • »  E-Mail »  Print »  Discuss »  Write To Editor late last year -- can be resolved. "We have more confidence in Microsoft than we would have 10 years ago," says Schmidt. "But it always makes sense to look at the security implications, the value back to the customer, and those kind of issues." The DOT's ban on Vista, Internet Explorer 7, and Office 2007 applies to 15,000 computer users at DOT proper who are currently running the Windows XP Professional operating system. The memo indicates that a similar ban is in effect at the Federal Aviation Administration, which has 45,000 desktop users. Compatibility with existing applications appears to be the Transportation Department's major concern. According to a separate memo, a number of key software applications and utilities in use in various branches of the department aren't Vista compatible. Among them are Aspen 2.8.1, ISS 2.11, ProVu 3.1.1, and Capri 6.5, according to a memo issued by staffers at the DOT's Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. Any prolonged ban on new Microsoft technologies by the federal government could have a significant impact on the software maker's bottom line, as Microsoft sells millions of dollars in software to the feds annually. http://as.cmpnet.com/event.ng/Type=count&ClientType=2&AdID=125682&FlightID=75634&TargetID=2625&SiteID=222&AffiliateID=283&EntityDefResetFlag=0&Segments=1411,3108,3448,11291,12119&Targets=2625,2878,7904,8579&Values=34,46,51,63,77,87,91,102,140,222,227,283,442,646,656,1184,1255,1311,1405,1431,1716,1767,1785,1798,1925,1945,1970,2217,2299,2310,2326,2352,2678,2727,2767,2862,2942,3140,3347,3632,3636,3638,3890,3904,4080,448
    • Gary Edwards
      Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
       
      DOT chief technology officer Tim Schmidt DOT's CIO Daniel Mintz Federal Department of Transportation
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Whoa, those government desktops add up quickly.  This Vista ban will immediately effect over 50,000 desktops, with tens of thousands more possibly impacted by the IE 7.0 ban.  The MS Exchange/SharePoint Hub juggernaut is based on IE 7.0, which is not available for Windows 2000 - MSOffice 2000 desktops.

    Lack of Vista Stack compatibility with non Microsoft application is given as the reason for the ban.  But notice the "alternatives" to Vista mentioned; Novel SuSE and Apple Mac.  What kind of interop - compatibility do they offer?  My guess is ZERO!

    The reality is that the DOT is trapped.  My advice would be stay exactly where they are, keeping the current MSOffice desktop installs running.  Then, install the Foundation's daVinci ODF plugin for MSOffice. 

    This will insure that Windows OS and  MSOffice bound business processes can continue to function without disruption.  Win32 APi based applications like those mentioned in the article can continue.  Critical day to day business processes, workgroup and workflow related activities can continue without disruption or costly re engineering demanded by a cross platform port.

    What daVinci doe sdo is move the iron triangle that binds Windows-MSOffice applications to business processes and documents, to an ODF footing.  Once on a ODF footing, the government can push forward with the same kind of workgroup - workflow - intelligent docuemnt - collaborative computing advnaces that the Vista Stack was designed to deliver.  Only this push will involve the highly competitive "the customer is sovereign" environment of ODF ready desktop, server, device and Web 2.0 systems.  End of Redmond lock-in.  End of the costly iron triangle and the force march upgrade treadmill that so enriches Microsoft.

    So what's not to like?  We can do this.
    ~ge~

    http://docs.google.com/View?docID=dghfk5w9_20d2x6rf&revi
Gary Edwards

OASIS OpenDocument Adoption TC Pending Requests - 0 views

www.oasis-open.org/...pending_request.php

adoption oasis odf

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Pending Requests for OASIS OpenDocument Format (ODF) Adoption TC
Gary Edwards

Microsoft Closer on \'Office Open\' Blessing - 0 views

www.internetnews.com/...3662681

ecma exchange iso microsoft msoffice oasis odf ooxml opendocument openxml sharepoint vista xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Opponents to OOXML, which include IBM (Quote) and the Open Document Foundation, have argued that Microsoft's specifications are unwieldy and that the standard application is redundant with the Open Document Format (ODF), which already exists. Microsoft has countered that the OOXML format is valuable because it is closer to Office 2007 and is backwards-compatible with older versions of Office. "Although both ODF and Open XML are document formats, they are designed to address different needs in the marketplace," the company wrote in an open letter published earlier this month.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Internet News is reporting that Ecma has submitted to the ISO/IEC JTC1 their repsonsess to the 20 "fast track" for Ecma 376 (OOXML) objections.  Nothing but blue skies and steady breeze at their back for our friends at Redmond, according to Ecma's rubber stamper in chief, Jan van den Beld.

    Once again there is that ever present drum beat from Microsoft that ODF can't handle MSOffice and legacy MSOffice features - including but not mentioned the conversion to XML of those infamous billions of binary documents:
    "Microsoft has countered that the OOXML format is valuable because it is closer to Office 2007 and is backwards-compatible with older versions of Office. "Although both ODF and Open XML are document formats, they are designed to address diffe
Gary Edwards

Open Stack: Game Time for OpenDocument - 0 views

openstack.blogspot.com/...ame-time-for-opendocument.html

ecma eooxml iso microsoft mooxml oasis odf

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • IMHO, it all comes down to one question: > *... Is ODF able to handle everything EOOXML was designed for? Is there something you can do in EOOXML that can't be done with ODF? > Microsoft insists that the reason they developed EOOXML is that ODF is inadequate and unable to handle the advanced features of MSOffice, and, most importantly, the billions of binary legacy documents produced by the many versions of MSOffice still in production. > The answer to this question is that ODF can handle everything MSOffice can throw at it. > There are two ways of proving this. >
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    The primary difference between ODF and MOOXML is that ODF was designed to be a universal file format.  MOOXML was designed to be an XML file format for MSOffice, the Win32 API, and the Vista Information Processing Chain API (.NET 3.0). 

    ODF is application and platform independent.  MOOXML is application and platform specific.  It's bound to the Windows - Vista platform. 

    Microsoft's Brian Jones recently got caugh tup in a argument with the heavily armed WMD ODF expert and combatant Sam Hiser (WMD=Words of Massive Destruction).  In their exchange, Brian got confused over this very important distinction between ODF and MOOXML.  ODF allows specific applications to place their configurations and requirements in a settings file that is separate from the content, presentation and metadata containers.  MOOXML on the other hand makes no distinction whatsoever between application specific (MSOffice only) configuration, settings, processsing instructions and systemm dependencies and the rest of the file format contents.  Application settings are bound to content, presentation, and schema containers.  So bound that Brian is seemingly unaware of what ODF has achieved.  Sam caught him by surprise, as did many others posting comments:

    Brian Jones on MOOXML support for older versions of MSOffice:  Coments by Sam the WMD Man are below.


Gary Edwards

Game Time for OpenDocument: - 0 views

docs.google.com/View

ecma eooxml imported:del.icio.us oasis odf opendocument openoffice

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    There are the technical arguments for ODf vs. EooXML.  Then there are endless discussions concerning the discovery and disclosure of volumes of contradictions between ODF and EooXmL  And how about all those legal-patent-licensing-DRM restrictions on EooXML which shatter in comparison to the truly open and un encumbered ODF.  Even the comparison between ECMA the great rubber stamp standards for sale org vs OASIS, the everyman's consensus community standards mill where ODF flourishes.  All interesting.  but this blog is about the reality of migrating information and information processes to ODF.  It's not easy!
  • ...1 more comment...
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    There are the technical arguments for ODf vs. EooXML. Then there are endless discussions concerning the discovery and disclosure of volumes of contradictions between ODF and EooXmL And how about all those legal-patent-licensing-DRM restrictions on EooXM
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    There are the technical arguments for ODf vs. EooXML. Then there are endless discussions concerning the discovery and disclosure of volumes of contradictions between ODF and EooXmL And how about all those legal-patent-licensing-DRM restrictions on EooXM
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    There are the technical arguments for ODf vs. EooXML. Then there are endless discussions concerning the discovery and disclosure of volumes of contradictions between ODF and EooXmL And how about all those legal-patent-licensing-DRM restrictions on EooXM
Gary Edwards

Fear not beloved 450! - 0 views

openstack.blogspot.com/...fear-not-beloved-450.html

imported:del.icio.us msecmaxml oasis odf open-standards opendocument opendocument-foundation

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    ODF and the great herd of 450 million Win32 bound desktop users have an interesting furture ahead. Microsoft will try to force march them to the integrated Vista Stack and on into the Age of Collaborative Computing. IBM will try to bring collaborative co
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    ODF and the great herd of 450 million Win32 bound desktop users have an interesting furture ahead. Microsoft will try to force march them to the integrated Vista Stack and on into the Age of Collaborative Computing. IBM will try to bring collaborative co
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    ODF and the great herd of 450 million Win32 bound desktop users have an interesting furture ahead. Microsoft will try to force march them to the integrated Vista Stack and on into the Age of Collaborative Computing. IBM will try to bring collaborative co
Gary Edwards

ODF and differences of opinion | John Carroll - 0 views

blogs.zdnet.com/carroll

cdf foundation odf ooxml w3c

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • the OpenDocument Foundation had decided to back away from work on ODF in favor of CDF (a W3C-backed standard) out of a belief that ODF wouldn’t achieve the real-world interoperability goals the OpenDocument Foundation was originally created to achieve
Alex Brown

Microsoft and OpenDocument Format - At Last Some Compatibility? - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk - 0 views

www.eweekeurope.co.uk/...-last-some-compatibility--1082

shared by Alex Brown on 09 Jun 09 - Cached
  • It might have been helpful if Microsoft had targeted instead ODF 1.2,
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 09 Jun 09
       
      Sigh; people don't seem to get that 1.2 doesn't exist ...
Gary Edwards

Good-bye and Good Luck II | Part II - 0 views

docs.google.com/View

foundation odf oasis good-bye-and-good-luck

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Aug 09 - No Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Aug 09
     
    Official Statement from the OpenDocument Foundation to OASIS
Gary Edwards

Good-bye and Good Luck I Part I - 0 views

docs.google.com/View

foundation odf oasis good-bye-and-good-luck

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Aug 09 - No Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Aug 09
     
    Official statement from the OpenDocument Foundation on leaving OASIS
Alex Brown

OpenDocument - Formula - 0 views

www.oasis-open.org/...tc_home.php

shared by Alex Brown on 12 May 09 - Cached
  • OpenDocument already supports the inclusion of arbitrary formula languages for spreadsheet documents.
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 12 May 09
       
      and (for conformance fetishists) the important word here is "arbitrary".
Alex Brown

Is There Life After Office? | BNET Technology Blog | BNET - 0 views

industry.bnet.com/...is-there-life-after-office

shared by Alex Brown on 02 Jul 09 - Cached
  • Kafkaesque joke exemplifying vendor ambition, inexperience and stupidity
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 02 Jul 09
       
      Sounds familiar
  • Paul Merrell on 02 Jul 09
     
    Glynn Moody, who is quoted in the article, obviously does not understand what was involved in Massachusetts. Sam Hiser, also quoted, was deeply and personally involved. OOXML wasn't even on the horizon then. Microsoft Office 2003 wrote to a flat XML format that was irrelevant in any event. What Massachusetts wanted --- and deserved from the ODF community --- was an ability to integrate OpenOffice.org with business processes that were already thoroughly bound to Microsoft Office. The problem was in fact solved by the OpenDocument Foundation's ODF plug-ins for Microsoft Office, but the project had to be ditched because Sun would neither adapt OOo nor allow ODF to be adapted for the purpose. Gary Edwards and I wrote an in-depth and heavily-referenced article on why ODF failed in Massachusetts. http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2007/072307-opendocuments-grounded.html (.) Those who do not comprehend that integration of data created by end point solutions and stored in legacy data silos is a fundamental requirement in service oriented architectures will never comprehend why interoperability is so vitally important. They wind up being unwitting advocates of incredibly expensive rip out and replace solutions. Good luck, particularly in the current economic climate. The wonderment is why anyone believes that Microsoft Office can be toppled by ODF from its monopoly position without ultra-high fidelity interoperability with Microsoft Office. Too much "what works well enough for me works well enough for anyone" mindset, I suspect.
mesbah095

Guest Post Online - 0 views

guestpostonline.com

ODF OOXML OpenDocument cdf iso Microsoft OASIS XML openxml officeopenxml

shared by mesbah095 on 03 Apr 14 - No Cached
  • mesbah095 on 03 Apr 14
     
    Article Writing & Guestpost You Can Join this Site for Your Article & guest post, Just Easy way to join this site & total free Article site. This site article post to totally free Way. Guest Post & Article Post live to Life time only for Current & this time new User. http://guestpostonline.com
Gary Edwards

State's move to open document formats still not a mass migration - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...article.do

california davinci interop iso massachusetts oasis odef odf ooxml opendocument politics xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • June 08, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Only a tiny fraction of the PCs at Massachusetts government agencies are able to use the Open Document Format (ODF) for Office Applications, despite an initial deadline of this month for making sure that all state agencies could handle the file format.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Use of ODF remains minimal on government PCs in Massachusetts
    Eric Lai ....... June 8, 2007

    Bummer!  Do you think IBM is silent on this because they are busy cutting sweetheart deals with MS?  Are they going to hang Sun on this?  I'm sure that by next week IBM will have to respond to ODEF.   This just keeps getting better.  So in both Texas and California they wonder if it's even possible to implement ODF solutions.  No one wants to get into that hole with Massachusetts.

    ~ge~


Gary Edwards

EU-IDABC ODEF Workshop 2007 in Berlin - Documentation - presentations - 0 views

ec.europa.eu/...5935

california davinci interop iso massachusetts oasis odef odf ooxml opendocument politics xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • IDABC ODEF Workshop 2007 in Berlin
  • As information exchange in and with public administrations is very often bound to documents, editing, archiving and exchange possibilities for documents are crucial for the optimum function of administrations, both in terms of practicality and cost. Initiatives such as the PEGSCO Recommendations on Open Document Formats published by the IDABC Management Committee, demonstrate public administrations preference for "open" document exchange and storage formats that are subject to formal standardisation via international standardisation procedures.   The primary objectives of the Berlin event, held at the German Federal Ministry of the Interior (BMI), were to: compile further input from Member State public administrations on their experiences and strategies on ODEF gather industry viewpoints on the initiatives relating to ODEF standardization and information on future standardisation developments provide a platform for exchange between stakeholders in public administrations and main industry players The program of the workshop included, among other: ODEF Strategies: Examples from European Administration Practical Experiences with the implementation of ODEF Report on ODEF-Standardisation activities  4 parallel sessions with participants   A panel discussion with stakeholders 
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    ODF officially died on February 28, 2007, at the Advanced eGovernment Conference in Berlin.  Hellow ODEF
Gary Edwards

Microsoft trounces pro-ODF forces in state battles over open document formats - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...article.do

california davinci interop iso massachusetts oasis odef odf ooxml opendocument politics xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Microsoft trounces pro-ODF forces in state battles over open document formats Eric Lai and Gregg Keizer   document.write(''); if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Gecko")==-1) { document.write(''); } document.write(''); if (document.getElementById('dclk999')) { document.getElementById('dclk999').src = 'http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/idg.us.cpw.desktopapplications/index;pos=imu;tile=3;sz=336x280;ord=' + ord + '?'; } document.write(''); if ((!document.images && navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mozilla/2.') >= 0)|| navigator.userAgent.indexOf("WebTV") >= 0) {document.write('');} June 03, 2007 (Computerworld)
  • Keeping it private The other problem, Mathers said, was the jargon-laden disinformation that committee members felt they were being fed by lobbyists for both IBM and Microsoft. Although lobbyists would tell the committee one thing in private, they got cold feet when asked to verify the information publicly, under oath. "Suddenly, nobody wanted to sign witness affirmation forms and testify," he said. That undermined the credibility of each side, but it particularly damaged the position of ODF proponents. After Wyne testified publicly that in Massachusetts, only a handful of computers had thus far been converted over to using ODF, IBM declined to dispute her claims, Mathers said -- despite having earlier given "gleaming" reports on the progress of ODF in Massachusetts. "That's when I really started to question the whole bill," he said.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Uh Oh.  They got IBM dead to rights in Massachusetts.  I guess the truth about Massachusetts will be told!  Finally.  ODF failed in Massachusetts because there isn't a reasonable  means of implementing ODF.  Same in California.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    A must read.  And yes, the ODF Vendors are the reason ODF lost.  They didn't provide useful solutions.  In fact, the applicaitons they proposed were seen by government CIO's as cstly and disruptive "rip out and replace" non starters.  In California, CIO's asked if it was even possible to implement ODF!!!
Gary Edwards

Slashdot | Pro-ODF Legislation Loses In Six States - 0 views

it.slashdot.org/article.pl

california davinci interop iso massachusetts oasis odef odf ooxml opendocument politics xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • If this is the case then it greatly increases the scope of the bill from being a simple switch from MS Office to OpenOffice to a massive effort involving the definition of many new XML schemata, developing, testing and debugging software to handle the new schemata, creation of documentation, deployment of and training for the new software, etc., etc.
  • Another document format is not needed. This was already obvious before blogs took off, but to be promoting now is unforgivably stupid and irresponsible. Try and explain to an average person why all the typing they just did cannot even be viewed in a Web browser, they will not get it. Saving the user's typing as DOC or ODF is a con. The storage of text, styled text, graphics, photos, even movies (MPEG-4 H.264-AAC) has been solved. Your document format is ready it is HTML 4.01 Strict, CSS 2.1, and JS 1.5, there is nothing in the 1980's technology of MS Word that cannot be stored this way.
    • Gary Edwards
      Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
       
      Bravo! Here's someone who gets it. XHTML + CSS3 + RDFa + RDF/XML is the winner. ODF is tied to OpenOffice, Sun's machiavellian monopolist machinations, and bound to a desktop only implementation range that is so retro 1995. MOOXML of course is bound to the MS Vista Stack, where desktop, server, device and web informaiton are all interoperable if only your speak perfect MOOXML, XAML, Smart Tags, and .NET
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Incredible.  The tile alone says it all.  And the poster commenting on IBM and secret disaster that happened in Massachusetts has it right.  I wonder who that commenter is anyway?
Gary Edwards

My Life As An OASIS ODF Lawn Jockey - 0 views

www.mybloglog.com/...garyedwards

iso mooxml oasis odf opendocument openxml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
Gary Edwards

Reality Check: ODF vs. OpenXML - 0 views

weblog.infoworld.com/...odf_vs_openxml.html

microsoft mooxml oasis odf officeopenxml opendocument openxml sun

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Where do I stand? Well, at the risk of getting a lot of hate mail saying I am in Microsoft's pocket, if what Robertson and Paoli say about OpenXML and ODF is correct, then I think OpenXML is needed, at least until ODF becomes backward-compatible with older Office file formats and offers the capabilities large organizations require in their productivity solutions to run their business.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Great comments by the sincere but mislead pro ODF community.  If these guys only knew how much ODF is under the control of big vendor Sun and their standards spitting buddies at OASIS.
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