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Gary Patton

"Doctrine of Retrobation" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

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bible romans predestination double predestination

shared by Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11 - No Cached
  • So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He (B)hardens whom He desires.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 06 Jun 12
       
      Briefly, the doctrine of predestination teaches that God, in his sovereignty, elects those who will receive the benefits of salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ and passes over the rest, who by their sin and rebellion against the holy commands of God, will be sentenced to eternal damnation. This key verse, 18, in the context of the whole passage, seems to many Jesus Followers, to be the other side of the coin from Predestination of "the 'Elect of God" i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". Some Christian theologians call the exercise of God's sovereignty by Him in pre-deciding who will, and, therefore who will not, spend eternity with Him in His Kingdom, "Double Predestination". In using this term, they refer mainly to Romans 8:29-30 in the context of a passage about God's love at http://diigo.com/0lc07 . The reason some add the adjective 'double' to the doctrine of Predestination is because God's 'choosing' or 'election' of some individuals includes His 'non-election' of others ...by definition they say. These Christians also, and harshly some say, call the doctrine of 'non-election' the "Doctrine of Divine Reprobation" (God passing over the reprobate*). Those who use the term argue that, given the eternal consequences of not choosing the Gospel of Jesus (also called Yeshua), a clear warning is crucial to help people better understand the consequences of spending eternity separated from God. Divine Reprobation according to this theology's supporters seems to be Biblical based on the following passages besides this one in context: * Matthew 11:25-26; * Romans 9:17-22; * 2 Timothy 2:19-20; * Jude 4; * 1 Peter 2:8. So Biblically speaking, they argue, anyone who rejects the doctrine that God 'dis-elects' the reprobate has a problem explaining the above passages in Scripture in any other context. * 'Reprobate' is both a noun and a verb. "A reprobate" is an evil person. "To reprobate" is to "condemn to damnation" as explained in the dict
  • For (E)who resists His will?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 06 Jun 12
       
      There are generally "Two Views of Onus in Human Salvation" as I understand the theology of Christian salvation. (For me, theology is simply "what a person believes about God.) Some argue that because God is omniscient*, He knew before the beginning of time who would choose to believe in The Gospel Of Jesus (Yeshua) at all points in the future, He elects them for salvation and empowers their salvation by giving them the faith to do so. Those who follow "reformed theology" reject this theorem because, they say, it denies God's absolute sovereignty and puts the control in salvation in a wo(man)'s choice and hands. (Some call this latter theory re the preeminence of man in salvation "Armenianism".) However, others argue that Romans 3:11 seems to clearly say that "no one seeks God" of their own will. Therefore, some folks believe that anyone who becomes saved does so only because of God's loving grace for that person. God chooses for His own sovereign reasons to gracefully gift those the New Covenant (Testament) calls "the elect" with the faith they need to be saved. Only this way will we choose to believe the Gospel of Jesus and follow Him. In the opinion of some Jesus Followers, it is not our desire that is the onus in salvation and long-term destiny according to Ephesians 2:8-10 at http://diigo.com/0n20e .
  • Romans 9:17-22
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 06 Jun 12
       
      The Lost Are Truly Lost ...But Are The Damned Truly Damned? Romans 9:17-18 and 21-22 in the context of the whole passage is the other side of the coin from Predestination of the 'Elect' i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". gfp (2011-11-21)
  • Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
     
    Romans 9:17-18 and 21-22 in the context of the whole passage is the other side of the coin from Predestination of the 'Elect' i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". gfp (2011-11-21)
Gary Patton

Arminianism (Christian theology) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia - 0 views

www.britannica.com/...Arminianism

bible freedom scripture theology encyclopedia evangelicalismicals

shared by Gary Patton on 05 Apr 12 - No Cached
  • Arminianism
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 05 Apr 12
       
      The crux of Arminianism lays in its assertion that human dignity requires an unimpaired freedom of the will.Sounds good, eh? But, I struggle with where one may find in the Old or New Covenant a commitment that God has committed to our having "an unimpaired freedom of the will". You? gfp (2012-04-05)
  • The crux of Remonstrant Arminianism lay in the assertion that human dignity requires an unimpaired freedom of the will.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 05 Apr 12
       
      Arminianism * "The crux of Remonstrant Arminianism lay in the assertion that human dignity requires an unimpaired freedom of the will." ~ Encyclopedia Britannica at http://diigo.com/0pgpt I find this crux statement hard to accept and believe for two reasons: 1. I can't find this so-called "Biblical truth" promised anywhere in the Old or New Covenant, and 2. I have watched our loving heavenly Father cause/force/lead ...please use whatever word you wish that makes you comfortable... me and others I know or have heard stories about to do things which we didn't want to, or would rather not, do! I've watched the latter, common (really typical, in my opinion) phenomenon throughout my Christian life of about 30 years. What we ARE promised, however, is among other blessings that: 1. God will NEVER send, or allow, anything to touch us without it first passing through His loving fingers or that we can't handle in His strength (1 Corinthians 10:13 at http://diigo.com/0jmgy ), and 2. He ALWAYS will work out for each Jesus Followers' "good" ("best", if you permit me) anything that He does send or allow into our lives because of His incredible, undeserved love for us! (Romans 8:28-39 at http://diigo.com/0lc07 ) When I resist what I know is God's will ...desiring or insisting on my unimpaired freedom..., I've discovered that He always gets His way. (Duh!) Plus I also sense that I'm resisting the inevitable because my flesh is simply not happy with Holy Spirit's Lordship in my life. (Duh!) When the desire to resist what God wants persists ...but, more importantly, too often wins for a while..., one may be wise to start wondering if s(he) really is a Follower of Jesus. Unsure about the above? Try this credo on for size and monitor how you feel about it: * "Lord, anything...Any time... Anywhere... At any cost!" ~ Art Yonner, (1930-2011) U.S. Wordteam missionary
  • Gary Patton on 05 Apr 12
     
    The crux of Arminianism lays in its assertion that human dignity requires an unimpaired freedom of the will. I struggle with where one may find in the Old or New Covenant a commitment that God has committed to our having " an unimpaired freedom of the will". gfp (2012-04-05)
Gary Patton

Trials Produce Joy? Say what! | NIV YouVersion - 0 views

www.youversion.com/...jas.1.2-8.niv

bible scripture scripture interpretation James 1 joy trials perseverence

shared by Gary Patton on 29 Aug 12 - No Cached
  • Trials and Temptations
  • When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
  • If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
  • ...2 more annotations...
  • Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,t whenever you face trials of many kinds,3
  • because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

www.bib-arch.org/...jesus-last-supper.asp

bible scripture interpretation Jesus judiasm christianity archaeology history

shared by Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12 - No Cached
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Why would two people, Matthew and Luke, who were the more consistent eye witnesses to the accounts that they report copy Mark? It makes no sense. Mark was a boy while Jesus walked Israel and did not travel about with Him. Mark also was not an original Disciple of Jesus and reported on most the events in his Gospel based on second hand information from the Disciples who did travel with jesus, one can assume. I feel the whole Mathew and Luke copied Mark plus Mark is based on some lost document called "Q" theory of many scholars is rooted in a desire by many to deny or ignore God's supernatural involvement in the documentation of His Son's incarnation and ignores the fact that Matthew and John were eye witnesses to all of what they wrote about. They had no need to copy but had their own perspective on what they heard and saw as do modern witnesses. Likewise, modern research indicates that the reports of most eye witnesses are highly unreliable. If God was not involved, one would have to question the accounts. If that one is not a Jesus Follower and without faith in the supernatural inerancy of the Biblical accounts of both the Old and New Covenants, that's another matter entirely.
  • Thus, in fact we don’t really have three independent sources here at all. What we have, rather, is one testimony (probably Mark), which was then copied twice (by Matthew and Luke).
  • Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This April 2012 article in BAR analyzes the similarities between the Jewish Seder and what Christians call Jesus' "Last Supper" and the timing of the event based on archaeological evidence. gfp (2012-04-07)
  • ...25 more annotations...
  • the Gospels—with their hatred of the Jewish authorities
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I wonder why the author construes an historical report of what the writer considered 'truth' and 'facts' as 'hatred'. The history of Christianity may be replete with antisemitism, especially some of the protestant Reformers of the Catholic Church, like Luther particulalrly. However, I feel the charge of hatred in the Gospel accounts of the Jewish involvement in the death of Jesus is an unfair one. The Roman authorities were jst as responsible for the crucifixion of Yeshua/Jesus. In fact the Bible seems to make clear that the sin nature and sins of every person who has ever or ever will live is the real reason for Jesus' death. We are ALL responsible ...not just the Jewish and Roman authorities!
  • John’s timing of events supports the Christian claim that Jesus himself was a sacrifice and that his death heralds a new redemption, just as the Passover offering recalls an old one. Even so, John’s claim that Jesus was killed just before Passover began is more plausible than the synoptics’ claim that Jesus was killed on Passover.
  • the Last Supper could not in fact have been a Passover Seder.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Christian historical tradition labels "The Last Supper" a Seder ... not Jesus. He is recorded to have simply called it the "last time He would eat this bread and drink this wine until ...". It was "the time for passover". That Jesus duplicated many Seder rituals seems to be clear from the Gospel accounts ...even if the timing was off. What's the big deal? The REALLY important thing about the Easter events is that Jesus died for humankind's sin nature and sins. Plus, the other big historical event is His resurrection from the grave as proof that God accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of "all who will believe" in Him and what He did for us!
  • That Christians celebrated the Eucharist on a daily or weekly basis (see Acts 2:46–47) underscores the fact that it was not viewed exclusively in a Passover context (otherwise, it would have been performed, like the Passover meal, on an annual basis).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Jesus called us to "do this", i.e., celebrate His sacrifice by eating together as a community of Believers in and Followers of Him. He did not call us to celebrate Passover an eternal commandment for Jews only. Jesus claimed that he had come to fulfill "all the [requirements of the] law and the prophets"!
  • Moreover, while the narrative in the synoptics situates the Last Supper during Passover, the fact remains that the only foods we are told the disciples ate are bread and wine—the basic elements of any formal Jewish meal.
  • “Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant’” (Matthew 26:26–28=Mark 14:22; see also Luke 22:19–20). Is this not a striking parallel to the ways in which Jews celebrating the Seder interpret, for example, the bitter herbs eaten with the Passover sacrifice as representing the bitter life the Israelites experienced as slaves in Egypt?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I'd suggest it is more a replacement of, as I note above, rather than a parallel with a Seder!
  • For many Jews (especially non-Orthodox Jews), the process of development continues, and many modern editions of the Haggadah contain contemporary readings of one sort or another. Even many traditional Jews have, for instance, adapted the Haggadah so that mention can be made of the Holocaust.8
  • Almost everyone doing serious work on the early history of Passover traditions, including Joseph Tabory, Israel Yuval, Lawrence Hoffman, and the father-son team of Shmuel and Ze’ev Safrai, has rejected Finkelstein’s claims for the great antiquity of the bulk of the Passover Haggadah.
  • It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple.b
  • the Holy One, blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Here may lie the roots of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • King of Kings, the Holy One Blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      As I wonder in the e-Sticky Note immediately above, here may lie the root of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • Might not Jesus be presenting a competing interpretation of these symbols? Possibly. But it really depends on when this Rabban Gamaliel lived. If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • Virtually all scholars working today believe that the Haggadah tradition attributing the words quoted above to Gamaliel refers to the grandson, Rabban Gamaliel the Younger, who lived long after Jesus had died.14 One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • And presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      A Jesus Follower can know that s(he) knows by faith in the accuracy of our Scriptures. The Scriptures make clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant. he explains clearly a NEW symbolism for the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt but... all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • Having determined that the Last Supper was not a Seder and that it probably did not take place on Passover, I must try to account for why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      The Last Supper being a Seder meal on the Day of Passover is NOT the key issue for a Jesus Follower as I mentioned in my e-Sticky Note above. The key on the cotrary is Who Jesus was as the God-man and what he was about to do for us on His cross on cavalry.
  • Another motive relates to a rather practical question: Within a few years after Jesus’ death, Christian communities (which at first consisted primarily of Jews) began to ask when, how and even whether they should celebrate or commemorate the Jewish Passover
  • The Quartodeciman custom of celebrating Easter beginning on the evening following the 14th day apparently began relatively early in Christian history and persisted at least into the fifth century C.E.
  • Early on, a number of Christians—Quartodecimans and others—felt that the appropriate way to mark the Jewish Passover was not with celebration, but with fasting.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Interestingly, no where, that I can find in the Old or New Covenants, does God command or even suggest that His people should fast. I have not extensively researched the issue but, I suspect I'll discover that, this propably is a Jewish ritual that was carried on by early Christians, i.e., another man-made tradition. There is the reference in Matthew 6:16-18 where Jesus says: "When you fast ...." This is NOT a command but simply, in context, an observational reference to a practise that was common among religious Jews ...the group to whom Jesus was speaking. I comment further on this issue in e-Sticky Note on the Matthew 6 Scripture at http://diigo.com/0piw0 and in the article on fasting from Christianity today at http://diigo.com/0p9iv .
  • Thus, until Jesus’ kingdom is fulfilled, Christians should not celebrate at all during Passove
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      here again, and depsite what Karl Kuhn says, the issue is not celebrating Passover, but Jesus' command to eat together as a group of his Followers whenever we can and "remember" him.
  • By calling the Last Supper a Passover meal, these Jewish-Christians were trying to limit Christian practice in three ways. Like the Passover sacrifice, the recollection of the Last Supper could only be celebrated in Jerusalem, at Passover time, and by Jews.c
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This heresy didn't last very long. Some Messianic Jews still today follow Old Covenant feast and other practises that other Christians do not.
  • there are various reasons why the early church would have tried to “Passoverize” the Last Supper tradition.
  • This too is a Passoverization of the Jesus tradition, but it is one that contradicts the identification of the Last Supper with the Seder or Passover meal.
  • Surely the depiction of the Last Supper as a Passover observance could play a part in this larger effort of arguing that Jesus’ death echoes the Exodus from Egypt
  • a widely popular Paschal sermon, which could well be called a “Christian Haggadah,” reflecting at great length on the various connections between the Exodus story and the life of Jesus
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Typology as some call it i.e., seeing Old Covenant people, practises and places as 'types' or 'shadows' pointing to or representing Jesus is common in some Christian circles and with some teachers.
  • Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.23 Is it not possible to see the switch from using leavened to unleavened bread as a “Passoverization” of sorts?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      And regardless of leavened or unleavened bread or wafers, these kinds of issue are seen by many Jesus Followers as focusing on dead and deadly religious ritual, regalia and rules rather than on relationship, revelation and romance with a living God through Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Gary Patton

Does God Get What God Wants? - Bible Gateway - 0 views

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bible scripture timothy salvation grace god Jesus Yeshua christ evangelism theology

shared by Gary Patton on 05 May 12 - No Cached
  • God our Savior, 4 (B)who desires all men to be (C)saved
  • 1 Timothy 2:3-4
  • Gary Patton on 05 May 12
     
    1 Timothy 2:3-4 confirms God's heart for those not in personal relationship with him because they don't know Jesus personally. gfp (2012-05-05)
Gary Patton

Muslim Persecution of Christians: May, 2012 :: Raymond Ibrahim - 0 views

www.raymondibrahim.com/...ecution-of-christians-may-2012

muslim christians persecution hate

shared by Gary Patton on 05 Jul 12 - No Cached
  • Muslim Persecution of Christians: May, 2012
  • Gary Patton on 05 Jul 12
     
    Christians must always remember that Scripture clearly tells us that our real enemies are not Islamists, Islam or Muslims or others that persecute and kill us. Our R-E-A-L enemies are diabolical spirits as outlined in http://diigo.com/0jl35 . They are motivated by Satan and his hordes of demons in opposition to anything that is of God. The statement of the Roman Emperor, Marcus Aur
Gary Patton

"The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church" - Book Summary - 0 views

www.grandpappy.info/brapture.htm

bible scripture scripture interpretation rapture

shared by Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12 - No Cached
  • The following summary is based on Chapter Ten of Marvin Rosenthal's book, The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      In his book, "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", Marvin Rosenthal, outlines a powerful, Biblical analysis of the Old and New Covenants regarding when the so-called "Rapture" of Jesus Followers takes place. Mr. Rosenthal concludes from his well-documented, clear, easy-to-understand and graphics-supported analysis that the commonly-believed "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" theological position of most North American Bible teachers is inaccurate and not supported by a careful Biblical analysis. This is an excellent summary of the key aspects of Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • There is a debate going on among Christians
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      The debate is because Jesus said: "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Luke 12:40). Please read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . It clearly stated there that we cannot know for certain when Jesus will return for his Followers and the judge the earth. But we can be certain He will do so! Therefore, Jesus Followers are wise to live lives of faith, obeying Jesus in all things as we are commanded in 2 Peter 3:8-13 (Contemporary English Version (CEV)) 8 Dear friends, don't forget that for the Lord one day is the same as a thousand years, and a thousand years is the same as one day. 9 The Lord isn't slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost. 10 The day of the Lord's return will surprise us like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a loud noise, and the heat will melt the whole universe. [a] Then the earth and everything on it will be seen for what they are. [b] 11 Everything will be destroyed. So you should serve and honor God by the way you live. 12 You should look forward to the day when God judges everyone, and you should try to make it come soon. [c] On that day the heavens will be destroyed by fire, and everything else will melt in the heat. 13 But God has promised us a new heaven and a new earth, where justice will rule. We are really looking forward to that! Footnotes: 2 Peter 3:10 the whole universe: Probably the sun, moon, and stars, or the elements that everything in the universe is made of. 2 Peter 3:10 will be seen for what they are: Some manuscripts have "will go up in flames." 2 Peter 3:12 and you should try to make it come soon: Or "and you should eagerly desire for that day to come."
  • The fact of the Rapture is not in question (at least not among Christians).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 describes what Christians call 'The rapture. This verse is included below in the discussion of the Scriptures re the "Sixth Seal" mention in the "Book of Revelation" in the Bible.
  • ...13 more annotations...
  • Most Christians believe it will occur immediately before the tribulation period begins. A few Christians believe it will occur either during the tribulation period, or near the very end of the tribulation period.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      As you'll discover, the latter belief, i.e., just before the end of the Tribulation, is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • Christians believe the entire Bible is the true and accurate Word of God, and it is without error.
  • The most logical way to address this issue is to see what the Holy Bible has to say about this event.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Many Christian teachers would say the last statement here is too strongly put. They would say that "the Bible is infalabie" only in its original source documents ...none of which ave been found when I write this in 2012. Teachers, generally, are less dogmatic on the infalibility of current translations. They offer various positions on this issue.
  • Do not rely on footnotes added to your Bible. A biblical footnote is not the inspired Word of God, even though it is printed in your Bible. It is simply one person's interpretation of scripture.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is a valuable warning.
  • Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      You'll find out about the background and expereice of the author of this article at http://is.gd/sAdEWE. Regrettably, "Grandpappy" his nickname, does not describe his background as a Christian.
  • Who, of their own accord, without the witness of a fellow Christian, would be willing to accept the Christian faith if that meant they would be immediately slain?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      I'm unsure that this argument proves anything! No one accepts Jesus as Saviour and Lord of their own accord before, during or, as noted here, after the so-called Rapture of "Believers in Jesus" that are still alive on the earth just before the opening of the "Sixth Seal". We are always and only saved by God's grace and even our faith, which is involved as it says in Ephesians 2:8-9, is a gift from Father God. Holy Spirit does the convicting and the saving of pre-believers. There is no Scripture that says Holy Spirit's presence EVER leaves the earth, that I've found.
  • In the book of Revelation, a great multitude of Christians, from all over the world, suddenly appear in heaven. For someone with an open mind, these two descriptions are almost identical to what we Christians call the Rapture of the saints. Notice also that this reference to the Rapture in the book of Revelation occurs right after the 144,000 Jews are ordained to spread the Gospel. God does not want anyone to perish, and he has provided a way for the Gospel to be carried forth after all the new testament Christians are Raptured.
  • Christians will be spared from that wrath.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree with this statement on the basis of the numerous Scritures you can find described at http://is.gd/3y1nV8 . I lean especially on 1 Thessalonians 5: 9 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . I believe all the Scriptures at the above link clearly refer to Jesus Followers' salvation, in Christ, from an eternity separated from God. The latter seems to be what happens after the "Seventh Seal" is opened on those still remaining on the earth.
  • That is why they will be Raptured sometime between the opening of the 6th seal and the 7th seal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis based on his anlysis of the Old and New Covenant Scriptures mention above by this author. Mr. Rosenthal includes more in his book which I recommend to you for prayerful consideration, study and meditation. gfp (2012-01-19)
  • The opening of the seventh seal begins God's Wrath on an unbelieving world (from which Christians are spared).
  • This is a poor choice of terms for Daniel's 70th week, because
  • My purpose was to provide you with more information upon which you can make an informed decision.
  • His book is not based on personal opinion. It is based on the Word of God
  • Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
     
    This summary of Marvin Rosenthal's thesis in the book of the above title is by Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.. He summarizes Rosenthal's Old and New Covenant Scripture analysis regarding the timing of the rapture of the Church.
Gary Patton

How Christians Must Live to be Successful - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture galatians lifestyle flesh spiritual-warfare Holy Spirit

shared by Gary Patton on 25 Jan 12 - No Cached
  • Gary Patton on 25 Jan 12
     
    Galatians 5:16-18 share clearly how a Jesus Follower must live moment to moment as a lifestyle to defeat the enemy that holds us back.
Gary Patton

"You Don't Get Because You Don't Ask the Right Way" - Bible Gateway - 2 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture scripture interpretation spiritual growth desire

shared by Gary Patton on 26 Sep 13 - No Cached
  • James 4:2-3
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Sep 13
       
      James 4:2-3 makes clear what the conditions are for Jesus Followers to get what they want beyond their needs which Jesus promises to provide automatically in http://diigo.com/0qy8d Blessings all! GaryFPatton (2013-09-26)
  • When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
  • Gary Patton on 26 Sep 13
     
    James 4:2-3 makes clear what the conditions are for Jesus Followers to get what they want beyond their needs which Jesus promises to provide automatically in Blessings all! GaryFPatton 2013-09-26)
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