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Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

    • Gary Patton
       
      Why would two people, Matthew and Luke, who were the more consistent eye witnesses to the accounts that they report copy Mark? It makes no sense. Mark was a boy while Jesus walked Israel and did not travel about with Him. Mark also was not an original Disciple of Jesus and reported on most the events in his Gospel based on second hand information from the Disciples who did travel with jesus, one can assume. I feel the whole Mathew and Luke copied Mark plus Mark is based on some lost document called "Q" theory of many scholars is rooted in a desire by many to deny or ignore God's supernatural involvement in the documentation of His Son's incarnation and ignores the fact that Matthew and John were eye witnesses to all of what they wrote about. They had no need to copy but had their own perspective on what they heard and saw as do modern witnesses. Likewise, modern research indicates that the reports of most eye witnesses are highly unreliable. If God was not involved, one would have to question the accounts. If that one is not a Jesus Follower and without faith in the supernatural inerancy of the Biblical accounts of both the Old and New Covenants, that's another matter entirely.
  • Thus, in fact we don’t really have three independent sources here at all. What we have, rather, is one testimony (probably Mark), which was then copied twice (by Matthew and Luke).
  • Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?
    • Gary Patton
       
      This April 2012 article in BAR analyzes the similarities between the Jewish Seder and what Christians call Jesus' "Last Supper" and the timing of the event based on archaeological evidence. gfp (2012-04-07)
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  • the Gospels—with their hatred of the Jewish authorities
    • Gary Patton
       
      I wonder why the author construes an historical report of what the writer considered 'truth' and 'facts' as 'hatred'. The history of Christianity may be replete with antisemitism, especially some of the protestant Reformers of the Catholic Church, like Luther particulalrly. However, I feel the charge of hatred in the Gospel accounts of the Jewish involvement in the death of Jesus is an unfair one. The Roman authorities were jst as responsible for the crucifixion of Yeshua/Jesus. In fact the Bible seems to make clear that the sin nature and sins of every person who has ever or ever will live is the real reason for Jesus' death. We are ALL responsible ...not just the Jewish and Roman authorities!
  • John’s timing of events supports the Christian claim that Jesus himself was a sacrifice and that his death heralds a new redemption, just as the Passover offering recalls an old one. Even so, John’s claim that Jesus was killed just before Passover began is more plausible than the synoptics’ claim that Jesus was killed on Passover.
  • the Last Supper could not in fact have been a Passover Seder.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Christian historical tradition labels "The Last Supper" a Seder ... not Jesus. He is recorded to have simply called it the "last time He would eat this bread and drink this wine until ...". It was "the time for passover". That Jesus duplicated many Seder rituals seems to be clear from the Gospel accounts ...even if the timing was off. What's the big deal? The REALLY important thing about the Easter events is that Jesus died for humankind's sin nature and sins. Plus, the other big historical event is His resurrection from the grave as proof that God accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of "all who will believe" in Him and what He did for us!
  • That Christians celebrated the Eucharist on a daily or weekly basis (see Acts 2:46–47) underscores the fact that it was not viewed exclusively in a Passover context (otherwise, it would have been performed, like the Passover meal, on an annual basis).
    • Gary Patton
       
      Jesus called us to "do this", i.e., celebrate His sacrifice by eating together as a community of Believers in and Followers of Him. He did not call us to celebrate Passover an eternal commandment for Jews only. Jesus claimed that he had come to fulfill "all the [requirements of the] law and the prophets"!
  • Moreover, while the narrative in the synoptics situates the Last Supper during Passover, the fact remains that the only foods we are told the disciples ate are bread and wine—the basic elements of any formal Jewish meal.
  • “Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant’” (Matthew 26:26–28=Mark 14:22; see also Luke 22:19–20). Is this not a striking parallel to the ways in which Jews celebrating the Seder interpret, for example, the bitter herbs eaten with the Passover sacrifice as representing the bitter life the Israelites experienced as slaves in Egypt?
    • Gary Patton
       
      I'd suggest it is more a replacement of, as I note above, rather than a parallel with a Seder!
  • For many Jews (especially non-Orthodox Jews), the process of development continues, and many modern editions of the Haggadah contain contemporary readings of one sort or another. Even many traditional Jews have, for instance, adapted the Haggadah so that mention can be made of the Holocaust.8
  • Almost everyone doing serious work on the early history of Passover traditions, including Joseph Tabory, Israel Yuval, Lawrence Hoffman, and the father-son team of Shmuel and Ze’ev Safrai, has rejected Finkelstein’s claims for the great antiquity of the bulk of the Passover Haggadah.
  • It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple.b
  • the Holy One, blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
       
      Here may lie the roots of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • King of Kings, the Holy One Blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
       
      As I wonder in the e-Sticky Note immediately above, here may lie the root of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • Might not Jesus be presenting a competing interpretation of these symbols? Possibly. But it really depends on when this Rabban Gamaliel lived. If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • Virtually all scholars working today believe that the Haggadah tradition attributing the words quoted above to Gamaliel refers to the grandson, Rabban Gamaliel the Younger, who lived long after Jesus had died.14 One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • And presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
       
      A Jesus Follower can know that s(he) knows by faith in the accuracy of our Scriptures. The Scriptures make clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant. he explains clearly a NEW symbolism for the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt but... all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • Having determined that the Last Supper was not a Seder and that it probably did not take place on Passover, I must try to account for why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
    • Gary Patton
       
      The Last Supper being a Seder meal on the Day of Passover is NOT the key issue for a Jesus Follower as I mentioned in my e-Sticky Note above. The key on the cotrary is Who Jesus was as the God-man and what he was about to do for us on His cross on cavalry.
  • Another motive relates to a rather practical question: Within a few years after Jesus’ death, Christian communities (which at first consisted primarily of Jews) began to ask when, how and even whether they should celebrate or commemorate the Jewish Passover
  • The Quartodeciman custom of celebrating Easter beginning on the evening following the 14th day apparently began relatively early in Christian history and persisted at least into the fifth century C.E.
  • Early on, a number of Christians—Quartodecimans and others—felt that the appropriate way to mark the Jewish Passover was not with celebration, but with fasting.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Interestingly, no where, that I can find in the Old or New Covenants, does God command or even suggest that His people should fast. I have not extensively researched the issue but, I suspect I'll discover that, this propably is a Jewish ritual that was carried on by early Christians, i.e., another man-made tradition. There is the reference in Matthew 6:16-18 where Jesus says: "When you fast ...." This is NOT a command but simply, in context, an observational reference to a practise that was common among religious Jews ...the group to whom Jesus was speaking. I comment further on this issue in e-Sticky Note on the Matthew 6 Scripture at http://diigo.com/0piw0 and in the article on fasting from Christianity today at http://diigo.com/0p9iv .
  • Thus, until Jesus’ kingdom is fulfilled, Christians should not celebrate at all during Passove
    • Gary Patton
       
      here again, and depsite what Karl Kuhn says, the issue is not celebrating Passover, but Jesus' command to eat together as a group of his Followers whenever we can and "remember" him.
  • By calling the Last Supper a Passover meal, these Jewish-Christians were trying to limit Christian practice in three ways. Like the Passover sacrifice, the recollection of the Last Supper could only be celebrated in Jerusalem, at Passover time, and by Jews.c
    • Gary Patton
       
      This heresy didn't last very long. Some Messianic Jews still today follow Old Covenant feast and other practises that other Christians do not.
  • there are various reasons why the early church would have tried to “Passoverize” the Last Supper tradition.
  • This too is a Passoverization of the Jesus tradition, but it is one that contradicts the identification of the Last Supper with the Seder or Passover meal.
  • Surely the depiction of the Last Supper as a Passover observance could play a part in this larger effort of arguing that Jesus’ death echoes the Exodus from Egypt
  • a widely popular Paschal sermon, which could well be called a “Christian Haggadah,” reflecting at great length on the various connections between the Exodus story and the life of Jesus
    • Gary Patton
       
      Typology as some call it i.e., seeing Old Covenant people, practises and places as 'types' or 'shadows' pointing to or representing Jesus is common in some Christian circles and with some teachers.
  • Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.23 Is it not possible to see the switch from using leavened to unleavened bread as a “Passoverization” of sorts?
    • Gary Patton
       
      And regardless of leavened or unleavened bread or wafers, these kinds of issue are seen by many Jesus Followers as focusing on dead and deadly religious ritual, regalia and rules rather than on relationship, revelation and romance with a living God through Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Gary Patton

The Intent of the Law One God of Judaism and Christianity - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • Galatians 3:15-25
  • God is only one
  • the Scripture has (P)shut up [k]everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
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  • before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, (Q)being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our (R)tutor to lead us to Christ, so that (S)we may be justified by faith.
  •  
    Galatians 3:15-25 describes clearly why God gave the Jewish law to all humankind. Verse
Gary Patton

Galatians 3:19-25 NASB - Why the Law then? It was added because - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • Galatians 3:19-25
  • God is only one.
    • Gary Patton
       
      The ONE GOD of the Old Covenant (Testament) and the Father of the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) of the New Covenant are clearly stated in this passage to be the same ONE GOD. Verse 20 is contradicts the mistaken claims of Islam and Muslim jurisprudents and scholars. Muslims proclaim that their deity, Allah, is One God, as do Christians and Jews. But Allah, for many reasons, is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Yeshua (Jesus) that Christians and Jews worship as the ONE and ONLY God.
  • the Scripture has (H)shut up [f]everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
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  • But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, (I)being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our (J)tutor to lead us to Christ, so that (K)we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [g](L)tutor.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Verse 23 & 24 clearly explains the purpose of the Jewish Law and that Followers of Jesus are NOT subject to it.
Gary Patton

What Neuroscience Tells Us about Spritual Disciplines | Christianity Today - 0 views

  • Neuroscience sheds light on how fasting and other spiritual disciplines work by training our subconscious mental processes.
  • our conscious self is far less in control over who you are and what you do than you realize.  "We are not the ones driving the boat of our behavior," says neuroscientist David Eagleman.
    • Gary Patton
       
      I wonder, assuming this is true, might what psycology calls our subconscious be the residence of Christian flesh. However, I believe the existence of a 'subconscious' is, like 'evolution', a thesis that is usually stated as a fact and truth but no one can prove. Neither is a scientific theory and are certainly not proven theorems because they are not replicable through experimentation.
  • Jesus expected that dietary restriction would be a part of our spiritual practice. "When you fast," he said, not if.
    • Gary Patton
       
      There is no command that we fast in either the Old or New Covenant that I can find. Verse 16 for me is a suggestion not a command. If I'm correct, why do Christian pulpiteers and writers talk about Jesus' quote here like, as this writer says, it should be taken as "an assumption" that Jesus Followers for all time should fast? Why not just consider it what it was? In context, I suggest that Jesus was teaching about an appropriate attitude to take in our relationship with God and our worship of Him. To do so, Jesus used illustrations about how to fast a worship activity practised by the Jews of his day and Old Covenant characters with whom they were familiar. His illustrations were made to a group of religious Jews when He was teaching them on a hillside by using inappropriate fasting practises which some of them followed that He and everyone else present probably observed regularly. Likewise, because Holy Spirit "drove" Jesus into the wilderness without food or water for 40 days for reasons unique to Jesus' ministry, why is it often taught that we must imitate that one time happening, as far as we know, in our Masters life? Undoubtedly, fasting can be healthy for some when properly practised. It may also have positive spiritual implications when done for reasons God leads the faster about. But, much of the super-spiritual things taught about fasting for spiritual reasons do not seem to have any real Biblical support. It is Holy Spirit Who "shapes us into spiritual people" using his lovingly slow process of sanctification ...as it says in Romans 8:29-30 at http://diigo.com/0lc07 ... not our disciplined, hard work by depriving ourselves to train our subconscious as Rob Mol says in this article. Undoubtedly, fasting can be healthy for some when properly practised. It may also have positive spiritual implications when done for reasons God leads the faster about. But, much of the super-spiritual things taught about fasting for spiritual reasons do not seem to ha
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  • Don't fast for a cause, but to shape your soul.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Mr. Moll explains in this article the light that neuroscience, he says, sheds on how fasting and other so-called, "spiritual disciplines" work. He says our socalled "Christian disciplines" train our subconscious mental processes. I wonder if what he says makes sense because his opinions are based solely on a number of unproveable theories which he shares like they were facts without any qualification. I've added below some e-Sticky Notes about what I think. How do you feel about what I have written? gfp (2012-03-30)
  • by making the Lenten discipline of fasting about a cause, we are caving in to our cultural distaste for self-denial.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Amen!
  • But more importantly, spiritual disciplines shape us in deep ways. Because our brains—at the very least—mediate, process, and experience our spiritual lives, the disciplines can train us to become more attuned to God himself.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This is a statement with significant spiritual implications for which Mr. Mol offers absolutely no scientfic proof or Bisbilical support. Therefore, I suggest the statement is potentially dangerous because it promotes our works rather than "rest" in God as the Bible clearly does command in Hebrews 4.
  • when our blood sugar runs low, chemical signals from the blood stream reach the brain, which sends out signals to eat.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This process and that described below are hard-wired into our DNA by God to protect us ...not the result of our pratcising disciples!
  • The subconscious brain is at work, guiding our actions and our behavior
    • Gary Patton
       
      As a charismatic Follower of Jess, I would suggest that the results Mr. Moll is describing here can be just as acceptably ascribed to God working in His Followers' spirit because He lives in us ...rather than to some unprovable thesis stated like fact about a 'subconscious' developed by worldly psychology. The subconscious is not science because the concept is not replicable nor is it provable. Jesus Followers, on the other hand however, know that they know that they know that God leads them. We do because of the always beneficial result when we do what Holy Spirit leads.
Gary Patton

"God Confirms A Christian's "Assurance of Salvation'" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • 1 John 5:9-13
  • And the testimony is this, that God has given us (E)eternal life, and (F)this life is in His Son. 12 (G)He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
  • These things I have written to you who (I)believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (J)eternal life.
  •  
    "God Confirms A Christian's "Assurance of Salvation'" In 1 john 5:9-13, Holy Spirit spells out clearly that the salvation of a Jesus Follower is secure because of what our Saviour and Master did on His cross. There He paid the full penalty for our sin nature and sins by giving His sinless life as a substitute for us. God proved His acceptance of Jesus' "offering for sin" by raising Jesus from the dead. Jesus' resurrection was documented at the time by over 500 witnesses many of whom were martyred for their belief in what He did ...without recanting their faith in what they had seen with their own eyes. gfp (2012-06-21)
Gary Patton

God Behaving Badly | The Blog of Frank Viola - 0 views

  • God Behaving Badly
    • Gary Patton
       
      In this Interview by fellow author, Frank Viola, David Lamb author of "God behaving badly" contextualizes a number of "hard sayings" from the Old Covenant portion of the Christian Bible. He helps a reasonable reader understand that the seemingly harsh and vindictive God of thr Old Testament is the gentle Jesus of pre-cross Christianity. gfp (2012-05-08)
Gary Patton

God Lives In Jesus Followers - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • 1 Corinthians 6:18-20
  • do you not know that (C)your body is a [b]temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from [c]God,
  •  
    1 Corinthians 6:18-20 says clearly that God lives in Jesus Followers in the person of Holy Spirit to empower us for live. Please do not doubt that Holy Spirit is a person of the One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which Christians call "The Trinity". This important truth is confirmed in Acts 5:1-10 at http://diigo.com/0jv6z . gfp (2012-05-12)
Gary Patton

How Islamic Can Christianity Be? - The Gospel Coalition Blog - 0 views

  • My wife and I had been working with Muslims for years and were aware of this training, commonly referred to as the Insider Movement.
  • when I first read about Insider Movements, I had the same reaction she did. I was hopeful and excited.
  • Could this be the tool that causes a spiritual awakening in the Muslim world? Over time, as we continued our ministry to Muslims in the Middle East, I realized the answer to my question was "No, it will not."
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  • The Insider Movement (IM) remains a hot topic in missions circles.
  • This issue is extremely complicated and extremely important, making it difficult to write about.
  • Rebecca Lewis, a proponent, defines the IM as follows: Insider movements can be defined as movements to obedient faith in Christ that remain integrated with or inside their natural community. In any insider movement there are two distinct elements:
  • This definition is broad and can be interpreted many different ways---which is one of the difficulties in pinpointing the teachings of the movement.
  • those opposed to IM seem to assume that proponents are syncretistic heretics.
  • The IM advocates I've met are wonderful people.
  • They are winsome, intelligent people who love the Lord and want to see Muslims saved.
  • we need to address the dangerous practices within the movement, which varies to some degree from person to person and country to country. Therefore, my critique may not apply to all IMs. Nevertheless, the following key issues need to be addressed.
  • many other IM advocates believe the gospel can be found within the Qur'an, if you correctly interpret the text. But the gospel cannot be found in the Qur'an, because the Qur'an did not come to us through the inspiration of God as found in the Bible.
  • There is also an arrogant attitude---almost imperialistic---involved in this assertion.
  • IM practitioners seek to keep new followers of Jesus within their socio-religious networks. For support their cite various texts in the Bible (1 Corinthians 7:17-24, 9:19-23; 2 Kings 5:15-19). Therefore, a Muslim who follows Jesus remains a Muslim.
  • I agree that Muslims who follow Christ shouldn't be required to take on the name "Christian."
  • We find among many IM advocates a belief that Islam can be redeemed---we should not abandon the religion but rather change it from within and welcome it into orthodoxy.
  • How Islamic can Christianity be? Can a Muslim who now follows Jesus fast during Ramadan? Can a Muslim who follows Jesus use the Islamic prayer stances? Where do we draw the line? These are tough questions.
  • While the word Christian can have a very negative connotation among Muslims, encouraging MBBs to retain the title "Muslim" can be confusing at best and deceptive at worst. Advocates for using the title "Muslim" argue that it literally means "one who submits to God." This is semantically true. However, the word connotes much more---namely, one who follows the religion of Islam by confessing, "There is no God but God and Muhammad is his prophet."
  • Some argue that God used Muhammad to bring monotheism to the Arabs---a kind of John the Baptist for the Arabs. This is a dangerous concession.
  • Rejecting Muhammad as a prophet does not require denigrating him before Muslims; it means we should not say more than necessary.
  • We can be respectful and identify the positive contributions he made to society without agreeing that he is a prophet.
  • How Islamic Can Christianity Be?
  • I never encourage MBBs to retain the title Muslim. Nor do I encourage them to take the title Christian.
  • Recent Bible translations for Muslims have created a frenzy by moving "Father" and "Son" language about the Trinity from the text to the footnotes.
  • What if the only understood meaning is physical and sexual? How do we translate without losing or grossly misrepresenting the biblical meaning?
  • the decisions about how to make the Bible comprehensible in other cultures are not easy or made lightly.
  • Some in the IM prefer to talk about Muslims "entering the kingdom of God" as opposed to "joining" Christianity.
  • We should view as suspect any form of church planting that does not seek to connect believers with the universal body of Christ and promote unity.
  • emphasis on the kingdom of God can downplay the importance of the church.
  • Missionaries and academics have wondered aloud whether the problem extends beyond Western politics, military intervention, and spiritual bondage to the very way we present the gospel. Could our methods be to blame? Could more sophisticated contextualization unlock many more hearts for Christ?
  • we can introduce Muslims to Jesus through the Qur'an
  •  
    This article explains the dangers of what's called the "Insider Movement" i.e. evangelizing Jesus Followers using the Qur'an and telling Muslims they can follow Jesus while remaining part of Islam. The article is written by a couple who have shared Jesus', not Isa's, love wit Muslims for many years in the Middle East. gfp (2012-05-21)
Gary Patton

Interpreting Scripture: Our Greek-ness is Showing - 0 views

  • All of us who have been raised and/or educated in a western culture…regardless of our ethnicity or heritage…think like Greeks. And this can cause us some problems when we attempt to interpret the Bible.Because God is not a Greek.
  • Among other things, we Greeks believe that there is only one correct way to interpret any particular scripture and apply it to our lives
  • hen interpret biblical truth through our own personal religious, cultural, societal, and experiential lenses
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  • That’s how we get more than 20,000 versions of the same truth.
  • When a verse or passage in the Bible lends itself to more than one interpretation, we Greeks seem unable to consider the possibility that both interpretations might be equally valid.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Actually, this tension is not really a "big deal" because the simple English word, 'antinomy' explains the Biblical concept of "equal and opposing truths"! Might it be that christains simply like to fight? In discussing contrary points-of-view on a 'proof-text', for example, do we allow Mr. Sin to rear up our flesh like a wild, untamed stallion ...rather than the Indian warrior pony in North American terms... to which Jesus was referring via the 'Greek' word He used when commanding us to be 'meek'. (Forgive me David, I don't speak Aramaic, either! :-)) gfp
  • I have been awestruck by the preciousness of Jesus and determined to obtain an intimate relationship with Him regardless of the cost because He is the only One who is worth what I will pay for Him. And I have been brought to tears to know that He loves, cherishes, and values me so much that He would pay the ultimate price to invite me into the relationship that He and the Father & the Spirit have enjoyed from eternity past.
  • I’m not convinced Jesus had any interpretation in mind when He spoke these words. He always did what He saw the Father doing, and He always spoke what He heard the Father speaking. I don’t know that Jesus needed much explanation or clarification before revealing the works and words of the Father.
    • Gary Patton
       
      And prior to going to His cross and being resurrected, Jesus, the incarnate "God Man", would have had to later think through what the Father gave him. Maybe He even talked through optional interpretations with "His boys"? Might He even have argued with Himself over them? (I hear that muttered "God forbid", Dr. Dave! :-)) gfp
  • Or we can put aside our Greek-ness and give up on the idea of objective truth defined as a body of information and correct interpretation. How about we simply adopt the Bible’s definition of objective truth?
    • Gary Patton
       
      I can suspect the horror this suggestion is generating in the flesh of "anti-grace-teaching" Pastors and the religious spawn they have misled! gfp
  • how about we let the Author of the scriptures quicken them to our hearts so that we see them in whatever light He wishes for us to see them at that particular moment?
    • Gary Patton
       
      WoW! What a novel idea!! Here again, this will be fleshly fear-inducing for religous people and their mistaken and misleading mentors. (And Dr. Dave knows that and does it intentionally, eh David! :-)) gfp
  • Only a Greek would ask such questions.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
  •  
    Dr. David Ryser, my Friend and a Greek and Hebrew scholar and teacher points out some core challenge of Scripture interpretation. The challenge applies cross-culturally and to followers of different gods ...with some adaptation to your culture and faith for non-Jesus Following religious people. All of us who have been raised and/or educated in a western culture…regardless of our ethnicity or heritage…think like Greeks. And this can cause us some problems when we attempt to interpret the Bible ...because God is not a Greek. gfp (2011-11-18)
Gary Patton

The R-E-A-L Gospel ...God's Saving Power Source - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • the gospel
    • Gary Patton
       
      The Gospel of Yeshua/Jesus is "Good News". One clear description of Jesus' Gospel (NOT the Muslim Isa's Injeel) is in 1 Corinthians 15: 3-7 at http://diigo.com/0kb4u . The Greek word translated into English as 'gospel' means "good news" and Yeshua/Jesus, the Messiah, is the personification of "good news". Simply put, He is the gospel! For anyone who hears them, Yeshua/Jesus and His words are heart-piercing as you can discover in His 'Beatitudes' at http://diigo.com/0kmjn . They are totally convicting because they demonstrate every hearers' total inability to behave as He commands. And, Jesus doesn't leave us hanging! Right now, He's making available to you His power. It's freely available to every man, woman and child ...despite what they may have done. He gives anyone who asks for it a "new life". Plus, He also gives us the power to live it, using His strength, when we believe His 'Gospel' ("Good News"/'Injeel'). This glorious News is that Yeshua/Jesus died to pay the full penalty that God's holiness and justice requires because of both our "sin nature" and our many 'sins'. As Deity incarnate (God with us), Yeshua/Jesus died so that His human creation could be forgiven by God and be reconciled to His heavenly Father and have peace with Him through Yeshua/Jesus's sacrifice and His subsequent resurrection from the grave. Yeshua/Jesus's death and resurrection guarantee real, eternal salvation instead by working for ones own salvation by trying to obey the law. Folks, Jesus is alive! He's living right now and praying for you at the right hand of our heavenly Father. When you respond to his pleading, He'll send his Holy Spirit to live inside you as a new, born-again Believer. "The Gospel" is the power in Jesus' words! "Stop trying ...and start trusting God! It's not what you do. But what Jesus has already fully done for you and Who is empowering you by living inside you!" ~ gfp '42™
  • the Greek
    • Gary Patton
       
      This expression and its synonym "Gentile(s)" means non-Jews.
  • it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes
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  • Romans 1:16
    • Gary Patton
       
      "The R-E-A-L Gospel ...God's Saving Power Source" Romans 1:16 is only one of the many places where God confirms the power of the Gospel of Yeshua/Jesus. And in this passage, Holy Spirit clarifies the Gospel's R-E-A-L power. gfp (2011-10-11)
  •  
    Romans 1:16 in the New American Standard Bible is only one of the many places where God confirms the power of the Gospel of Yeshua/Jesus (not the Muslim gospel (book that's disappeared) of Isa). Here He clarifies it's power save all of humankind from our sin (Our otherwise unchangeable, foul and separating human nature.) & sins (What we've done contrary to God's will.) ...REGARDLESS of what we have done or how bad we have been because salvation is a gift of God's grace through our faith in His Son's sacrifice on our behalf. One clear description of what Yeshua/Jesus has already done on our behalf is in 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 at (http://diigo.com/0kb4u). Good works can give us an enhanced outward demeanor. Only Yeshua/Jesul can set us free from our bondage to sin. gfp (2011-10-11)
Gary Patton

Jesus Is God And Not The Muslim Isa - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • John 10:27-30
  • My sheep (A)hear My voice, and (B)I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give (C)eternal life to them, and they will never perish
  • I and the Father are [b]one.
  •  
    "Jesus Is God And Not The Muslim Isa" John 10:27-30 makes clear that salvation from our sin nature and sins and reconciliation with a Holy God is available no other way than through Jesus (Yeshua). It also makes clear that He is NOT the Isa of the Islamic Qu'ran and One with the only God who is not Allah. gfp (2012-6-21)
Gary Patton

The Barna Group - Are Christians More Like Jesus or More Like the Pharisees? - 1 views

  • 20 statements
  • used to examine Christ-likeness
  • I listen to others to learn their story before telling them about my faith. In recent years, I have influenced multiple people to consider following Christ. I regularly choose to have meals with people with very different faith or morals from me. I try to discover the needs of non-Christians rather than waiting for them to come to me. I am personally spending time with non-believers to help them follow Jesus.
  • ...13 more annotations...
  • I see God-given value in every person, regardless of their past or present condition. I believe God is for everyone. I see God working in people’s lives, even when they are not following him. It is more important to help people know God is for them than to make sure they know they are sinners. I feel compassion for people who are not following God and doing immoral things.
  • 10 statements used to assess self-righteousness (like the Pharisees)
  • I tell others the most important thing in my life is following God’s rules. I don’t talk about my sins or struggles. That’s between me and God. I try to avoid spending time with people who are openly gay or lesbian. I like to point out those who do not have the right theology or doctrine. I prefer to serve people who attend my church rather than those outside the church.
  • I find it hard to be friends with people who seem to constantly do the wrong things. It’s not my responsibility to help people who won’t help themselves. I feel grateful to be a Christian when I see other people’s failures and flaws. I believe we should stand against those who are opposed to Christian values. People who follow God’s rules are better than those who do not.
  • Christ-like in action and attitude
  • Christ-like in action, but not in attitude • Christ-like in attitude, but not action • Christ-like in neither
  • The findings reveal that most self-identified Christians in the U.S. are characterized by having the attitudes and actions researchers identified as Pharisaical. Just over half of the nation’s Christians—using the broadest definition of those who call themselves Christians—qualify for this category (51%). They tend to have attitudes and actions that are characterized by self-righteousness.
  • On the other end of the spectrum, 14% of today’s self-identified Christians—just one out of every seven Christians—seem to represent the actions and attitudes Barna researchers found to be consistent with those of Jesus.
  • About one-quarter (23%) of evangelicals are characterized by having Jesus-like actions and attitudes, which was higher than the norm
  • Looking at America’s evangelical community—a group defined by Barna Group based on its theological beliefs and commitments, not self-identification with the terms “evangelical”—38% qualify as neither Christ-like in action nor attitude
  • Evangelicals are notably distinct from the norms in two ways: first, they were slightly more likely than other Christians to be Christ-like in action and attitude.
  • in the “middle ground,” with so-called jumbled actions and attitudes, evangelicals are the only faith group more likely to be Pharisaical in attitude but Christ-like in action.
  • The research shows that non-evangelical born again Christians and notional Christians were not much different from one another and not too distinct from national norms among all Christians.
Gary Patton

"'The God of This Age' Blinds The Lost ...Prayer Loosens His Hold" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  •  
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 makes clear that someone or something prevents many, called unbelievers in the Christian New Covenant (Testament) from hearing the "Gospel" (Good News") of Jesus of Nazareth. And the Biblical Jesus is NOT the Muslim Isa of the Islamic Qur'an regardless of what some Christians or churches teach.
Gary Patton

"Everyone Sins & It's Deadly" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  •  
    "Everyone Sins & It's Deadly" Every person has and will continue to regularly violate the laws of God (sin) in various ways because we are born with a sinful nature the Christian Bible says. The consequences God implemented starting with that of or first parents, Adam and Eve, was twofold: * loss of the ability to live forever as he had intended, and * separation from relationship with Him ...forever!
Gary Patton

What is bibliolatry? - 0 views

  • The term bibliolatry comes from combining the Greek words for Bible and worship. In a Christian context, simply stated, bibliolatry is the worship of the Bible.
  • note that the charge of bibliolatry does not claim some Christians literally bow down before a Bible and worship it, as if it were an idol.
    • Gary Patton
       
      But some religious folks come awful close to this! (Note: No smiley. I'm serious!) gfp
  • Believing in an inerrant, infallible, and authoritative Bible is not bibliolatry. Rather, it is simply believing what the Bible says about itself. Further, believing what the Bible says about itself is in fact worshipping the God who breathed out His Word.
  • ...6 more annotations...
  • the Bible is “God-breathed,” and “God does not lie” (Titus 1:2), then every word in the Bible must be true.
  • what the Bible says about itself. Second Timothy 3:16-17 declares, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful
  • Only a perfect, infallible, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient God could create written revelation that is itself perfect and infallible.
  • Do some believers emphasize the Bible to the point that other things of importance—such as tradition, nature, reason, and experience—are neglected? Yes. However, the Bible, based on what it says about itself, must be a higher authority than any of these and must, in fact, be the authority against which they are judged.
  • The Bible is not God. The Bible does not contain all of God’s knowledge. While the Bible gives principles that apply to every situation, it does not explicitly give us all the information we need to daily live our lives. Part of the problem is that some Christians take the saying “the Bible says it, that settles it, I believe it” to extremes.
  • God’s Word does not instruct us to abandon our brains or ignore our experiences. True reason is completely compatible with Scripture.
  •  
    This is an excellent explanation of the this dangerous term. And the term is only dangerous depending on how one defines the practise. The author talks about a key practise below that is "completely compatible with Scripture". Regrettably, his/her calling Scripture "God's Word" is NOT completely compatible with Scripture. Scripture makes perfectly clear that only Jesus is "God's Word"! And in the context of bibliolatry, I'm NOT just splitting hairs with my comment! gfp (2011-11-10)
Gary Patton

Who's Really Responsible for Sin Entering Humankind? - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Those of you who have been led to believe that "the woman" is responsible for the fiasco in which we find ourselves, please note in this verse 6 who was standing beside her at the tree. Please note also that Adam never corrected what God had told him ...not Eve. Might not Adam have miscommunicated God's command to Eve given what she told Satan? gfp (2012-01-04)
  • they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves [a]loin coverings.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Many Christians don't want to admit and usually state otherwise than that our first parents, not God, created humankind's first garments as it clearly says here. Regrettably, Christians and Jews seem to prefer to forget that Adam and Eve were each created naked by our God and walked together in public unashamed. It says so at http://diigo.com/0m7vq. Obviously, we know better what's good for us than God because our first parents immediately went into the fashion business as noted here. Nudity and sexuality are often linked, but they don't necessarily have to be. In fact, most Christian nudists believe that it's clothes that make a body sexual. To put it simply: if you see someone in the nude all the time, you begin not to notice it anymore. It becomes normal and you no longer feel "urges" toward that person. However, if that person is normally clothed, due to the curiosity of the unknown and the "forbidden," when they remove their clothing, it is more likely to become a sexualized experience. Most anti-nudity views are originally politically-based, not rooted in Judeo-Christian Scripture. It seems, therefore, that God's perfect attire for his perfect creation is nakedness in public, weather permitting! gfp (2012-01-04)
  •  
    Those of you who have been led to believe that "the woman" is responsible for the fiasco in which we find ourselves, please note in this verse 6 who was standing beside her at the tree. Please note also that Adam never corrected what God had told him ...not Eve. Might not Adam have miscommunicated God's command to Eve given what she told Satan? gfp (2011-01-04)
Gary Patton

A Comprehensive Look at Genesis 3 | The Bare Times - 0 views

  • In verse 21, God mercifully provides coats of skin for Adam and Eve. People view the slaughtering of the animal as God’s start of the sacrificial system for ancient Israel because something died to cover their sin.
    • Gary Patton
       
      One is wise to note that God did so only AFTER Adam and Eve had gone into the clothing business and covered their so-called "private parts". God did not design man to wear clothes except as protection which is why He may have replaced the foliage with the more sturdy animal skins as He sent them into the "cold cruel" world! The sacrifice of the animals to cover the sins, not the bodies, of human kind also presages the ultimate and future sacrifice of Yesus (Jesus) for the sins and sin of those whom would trust in Him and it in the "fullness of time".
  • after the fall, Adam saw his body as shameful; even while God did not say the body was evil after the fall.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Satan cons modern Christians, I believe, with diabolically-generated shame to believe the opposite untruth i.e. public nudity is shameful and unBiblical. Could not Adam's reference in Genesis to his shame have been about his disobedience rather than about his being naked? Old Testament ceremonial washings, including baptism, were performed in the nude. [Note 1 - Please don't hestitate to contact me if you would like the details for the source of this or any of the other historical facts included below. I'm a trained historian and also like to see the documentation for so-called facts that are not commonly accepted.] Christ, too, was probably baptized naked, as depicted in numerous early works of art. [2] Early Christians bathed communally in the nude at the public baths or public places during most of the second through the fourth centuries. This was common practise in Rome for hundreds of years at all levels of society. Public nudity was also common during this period in other parts of ancient Roman society. The writings of early Christians such as Irenaeus and Tertullian make it clear that they had no ethical reservations about communal nudity for Christians. [3] Christian historian Roy Bowen Ward confirms based on his research that "Christian Morality did not originally preclude nudity. . . . There is a tendency to read history backward and assume that early Christians thought the same way mainstream Christians do today. We attribute the present to the past." [4] For the first several centuries of Christianity, it was the intentional custom to baptize men, women, and children together nude. This ritual played a very significant role in the early church. The accounts are numerous and detailed. [5] Margaret Miles, a historian and author, notes that "Naked baptism was observed as one of the two essential elements in Christian initiation, along with the invocation of the Trinity. . . . In the fourth century, instructions for baptism throughout the Roman Emp
  •  
    This article outlines what the anonymous but Biblically astute author feels God says about nakedness at the time of creation.
Gary Patton

"Why the God-Head Positively Answers A Jesus Follower's Prayers" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  •  
    "Why the God-Head Positively Answers A Jesus Follower's Prayers" In John 16:23-24, Jesus tells his first Disciples and us why God will give them for what they ask.
Gary Patton

Jesus' Cousin John Baptizes Him - Matthew 3 VOICE - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • Matthew 3 (The Voice)
  • Jesus is the living Branch, the branch of David that extends the reach of the tree of Israel eventually to foreigners and outsiders.
  • a man called John[a] began to travel, preach, and ritually wash people through baptism in the wilderness of Judea. John preached a stern but exciting message.
  • ...10 more annotations...
  • Repent! For the kingdom of heaven is near.
  • John’s proclamation fulfilled a promise made by the ancient prophet Isaiah, who had said, “There will be a voice calling from the desert, saying,Prepare the road for the Eternal One’s journey
  • The Anointed One, whose way John comes to prepare, will call humanity away from comfort and status; He will call His followers to challenge their assumptions and the things they take for granted.
  • But John is not exactly warm to all those who come to him seeking cleansing.
  •  If you think that simply hopping in the Jordan will cleanse you, then you are sorely mistaken.
    • Gary Patton
       
      As John said 2000 years ago to religious people, then, turning from sinful violations of God's commands is the key to eternal life ...not, baptism, sitting in a church building regularly or reading the Bible! Only Jesus can empower a person to do what's needed for salvation from the coming horrible wrath of God against sinners on earth or at the door to heaven if you die first!
  • God can adopt as daughters and sons anyone He likes
  • To be made right with God, one must truly repent. It means to turn completely away from sin and completely toward God.
  • I ritually cleanse you through baptism[d] as a mark of turning your life around. But someone is coming after me, someone whose sandals I am not fit to carry, someone who is more powerful than I. He will wash[e] you not in water but in fire and with the Holy Spirit. 12 He carries a winnowing fork in His hand, and He will clear His threshing floor; He will gather up the good wheat in His barn, and He will burn the chaff with a fire that cannot be put out.
  • then, the One of whom John spoke—the all-powerful Jesus—came to the Jordan from Galilee to be washed[f] by John
  • Jesus emerged from His baptism;[h] and at that moment heaven was opened, and Jesus saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him, alighting on His very body. Voice from Heaven: 17 This is My Son, whom I love; this is the Apple of My eye; with Him I am well pleased.
  •  
    Jesus thought Baptism was crucial. gfp
Gary Patton

"How to Have Consummate Peace" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • Philippians 4:4-9
    • Gary Patton
       
      "How to Have Consummate Peace" http://diigo.com/0nkx5 If you want to always sleep sweetly, live your life moment-to-moment as Holy Spirit commands through the Apostle Paul, a sent-out one, in the Christian New Covenant (Testament) Verses below. And after 25 years of taking my worries, fears and F-E-A-Rs (False-Evidence-Appearing-Real) to God, I can guarantee that His way works ...every time! GaryFPatton (gfp '42™ 2012-07-24)
  • whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things
    • Gary Patton
       
      Before you speak or even reflect: T - is it TRUE? H - is it HELPFUL? I - is it INSPIRING? N - is it NECESSARY? K - is it KIND?
  • Rejoice in the Lord always
    • Gary Patton
       
      "Dour Christians", i.e., those who are "relentlessly severe, stern, or gloomy in manner or appearance", need to take this admonition to heart!
  • ...3 more annotations...
  • Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Do this and you WILL succeed ...and without fretting!
  •  Do not be anxious about anything,(C) but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Now, hows that for a simple, easy-to work formula, eh? And the secret to how and why this works you can find outlined in Philiippians 4:11-13 at http://diigo.com/0s0n6 , just a few verses later.
  • And the peace of God,(E) which transcends all understanding,(F) will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This is what I call: "God's Perpetual Promise of Peace" In late 1998, Karen, my wife, and I were dealing with life-threatening cancer in her colon. At the same time, I was totally disabled having been totally unable to work for the prior 3 1/2 years. I had serious Chronic Fatigue and Immune Deficiency Syndrome. We'd had no income coming in for over three years. This Verse describes perfectly what occurred in Karen's and my lives when we took our absolute terror about our diseases and what might happen to us in the future to our Heavenly Father! You can read more about our experience at or Website "Are You Sick & Tired Of Being Sick & Tired" at http://is.gd/5Mzhms .
  •  
    If you want to always sleep sweetly, live your life moment-to-moment as Holy Spirit commands through the Apostle Paul, a sent-out one, in Phillipians 4:4-9.
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