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Paul Merrell

Gray Matter : Compatibility Pack for Open XML passes 100 million downloads - 0 views

blogs.technet.com/...ses-100-million-downloads.aspx

office 2007 compatibility pack odf-ooxml stats

shared by Paul Merrell on 24 Jun 09 - Cached
  • The Compatibility Pack, software that allows you to open, edit and save Open XML format documents in Office XP and 2003 has now been downloaded over 100 million times.
  • Paul Merrell on 24 Jun 09
     
    Also includes stats in table form indicating that according to Google Search OOXML documents now outnumber ODF documents on the Web, for word processor documents, spreadsheet documents, and presentation documents.
Gary Edwards

Classes of Fidelity for Document Applications - Rick Jellife - 0 views

broadcast.oreilly.com/...es-of-fidelity-for-docume.html

odf ooxml openxml interop

shared by Gary Edwards on 28 May 09 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 28 May 09
     
    Rick Jellife weighs in on the OpenOffice ODF- MSOffice OpenXML interop embroglio. His take is to focus on Classes of Fidelity, providing us with a comparative table of fidelity categories. I wonder though if this über document processing approach is anywhere near consistent with the common sense meaning of interoperability to average end-users? IMHO, end-users interpret "interoperability" to mean that compliant applications can exchange documents without loss of information. "..... In my blog last year Is ODF the new RTF or the new .DOC? Can it be both? Do we need either? I raised the question of whether ODF would replace RTF or DOC. I think this issue has come back with a bang with the release of Office 2007 SP2, and I'd like to give another pointer to it for readers who missed it first time around.... "...... OASIS ODF TC has some kind of conformance and testing wing at work, but it is not at all clear that they will deliver anything in this kind of area. Without targetting these classes, ODF's breezy conformance requirements means that ODF conforment software can deliver vastly different kinds of fidelity, yet still accord to the letter of the law (and, indeed, to the spirit of the ODF spec, which allows so many holes) which will cause frustration all-around....." Ouch!
Gary Edwards

In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability | TalkBack on ZDNet - 0 views

talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0.html

odf ooxml iso compatibility

shared by Gary Edwards on 21 May 09 - No Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 21 May 09
     
    ODF is important. So What Went Wrong? Response to Jeremy Allison: Having participated in a number of government pilot studies, I must say that you are right; government officials do care about ODF. They really want it to work. But they also had expectations that ODF simply wasn't designed for. What they expected ODF to be was an open technology based on highly-structured XML markup that was application, platform, and vendor-independent, backward compatible, universally interoperable, and importantly, Web ready. That is not ODF nor is it OOXML. In fact, the closest thing we have for meeting these expectations is an ajax-webkit style HTML+ (HTML5, CSS4, SVG/Canvas, JS jQuery, etc.). ODF is highly structured, but it is not application-independent. .....
Alex Brown

The Phantom Proposals - 0 views

lists.oasis-open.org/...msg00098.html

shared by Alex Brown on 20 May 09 - Cached
  • I want to make sure that the record is crystal clear in this regard, since statements are being made, and actions attributed to members of this TC, which are false, misleading and reflect poorly on OASIS, this TC, our work and our decision making process. I don't think any of us want to see that happen.
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 20 May 09
       
      Oh?
Gary Edwards

Microsoft-led Forum Yields Tools for OOXML Interoperability - Business Center - PC World - 0 views

www.pcworld.com/...or_ooxml_interoperability.html

ooxml plutext wiki-word html

shared by Gary Edwards on 20 May 09 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 20 May 09
     
    Is there nothing that can cool the flames of this document war? Interesting coverage of the recent OOXML Interoperability event in London (Monday). Real stuff not talk. Since Florian, Jason and i are working on an OpenWeb ready HTML+ layer riding over OOXML there are some things mentioned that look very interesting. ..."An Opera browser plug-in for Open XML Document Viewer v1.0 was released at the meeting; the tool provides direct translation for Open XML documents (.DOCX) to HTML, enabling access to Open XML documents from any platform with a Web browser, including mobile devices. The document-viewing software already includes a plug-in for Firefox, Internet Explorer 7 and Internet Explorer 8...." ..."Microsoft and the other participants in Monday's forum also made available a beta of Apache POI 3.5, a Java API (application programming interface) to access information in the Open XML Format....."
Paul Merrell

Rob Weir is caught in a deceit - 0 views

www.adjb.net/...ormance-and-Portability-4.aspx

rob weir normative

shared by Paul Merrell on 19 May 09 - Cached
  • Ah, Marbux, what circus is complete without the clowns?
  • It seems you like to ignore requirements in order to defend Microsoft
  • Do you get paid to spread FUD like this, or is it merely a dilettantish pursuit?
  • ...1 more annotation...
  • I am unable to even imagine that you would be ignorant of basic standards terminology. So why do you persist in intentionally misleading your readers?
Graham Perrin

ODF Alliance Weblog: Microsoft's ODF Support Falls Short - 0 views

www.odfalliance.org/...osofts_odf_support_falls_short

shared by Graham Perrin on 19 May 09 - Cached
Graham Perrin liked it
  • “Unfortunately, serious shortcomings have been identified in Microsoft’s support for ODF. Putting potentially millions of ODF files into circulation that are non-interoperable and incompatible with the ODF support provided by other vendors is a recipe for fragmentation.”
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 19 May 09
       
      I think Mr Marcich forgot to put inverted commas round his particular use of "ODF" to denote its special meaning ...
  • Microsoft’s ODF Support Falls Short
  • some of the so-called ‘plug-ins’ were revealed to provide better support for ODF than the recently released Microsoft Office 2007 SP2
  • ...4 more annotations...
  • plug-ins for Microsoft Office written by third parties were revealed to provide better support for ODF than the recently released Microsoft Office 2007 SP2
  • SourceForge “OpenXML/ODF Translator Add-in for Office
  • Sun Plug-In 3.0
  • fail when using the “built-in” support provided by Office 2007 SP2
Alex Brown

OOXML is defective by design: Microsoft's latest aggression on ODF, codenamed "cast lead" - 0 views

ooxmlisdefectivebydesign.blogspot.com/...-latest-aggression-on-odf.html

shared by Alex Brown on 17 May 09 - Cached
  • nazis
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 17 May 09
       
      "Nazis", "genocide", "white phosphorous" -- and all about a file format implementation ...
Paul Merrell

GullFOSS - 0 views

blogs.sun.com/...etter_odf_support_in_microsoft

shared by Paul Merrell on 15 May 09 - Cached
  • I normally don't post my ODF Plugin news and information on GullFOSS, but so many people complain (everywhere, including in OOo mailing lists) about the bad ODF support in Microsoft Office 2007 SP2, that I thought it might be a good idea to post some information about the ODF Plugin here... The Sun ODF Plugin for Microsoft Office, which is based on OpenOffice.org, adds support for ODF to Microsoft Office 2000 and newer versions. So you don't have to use the very latest Microsoft Office 2007 SP2 version (in case you really need Microsoft Office for some reason) , where ODF support is insufficient anyway.
  • Paul Merrell on 15 May 09
     
    Like IBM, Sun bad mouths Microsoft ODF support rather than repairing the relevant defects in the ODF specification. This despite no one yet having come forward with an example of non-conformance that withstands scrutiny. So what should have been bug reports filed against the specification is instead wielded as an advertising weapon against competitors. This is simply more "OOo defines what is valid ODF" horse puckey.
Alex Brown

Is ODF designed to be not implementable without source code? - Wouter - 0 views

blogs.code-counsel.net/...Post.aspx

shared by Alex Brown on 02 Jun 09 - Cached
  • How come I am the one to notice how deficient ODF really is?
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 02 Jun 09
       
      "But mummy, he's not *wearing* any clothes ..."
  • Gary Edwards on 02 Jun 09
     
    Exactly! It's not that ODF is under-specified. It's that ODF can't be fully specified until OpenOffice is completely documented and capable of supporting expected features. There is this famous quote from Sun's Svante Schubert that pretty much says it all; "Nothing goes into the ODF specification unless it's supported by OpenOffice". The statement was made at a meeting of the OASIS ODF Metadata SC while discussing the controversial use of "XML ID". IBM's Elias Torres, of RDFa fame, was passionately arguing that use of the XML ID should be left open to all developers. Sun had taken the position that XML ID should be limited to only a handful of elements supported by OpenOffice. The discussion acutally got far worse than the quote would indicate. Elias compromised his arguments suggesting that we should allow developers to have at it with XML ID for at least one year, and then revisit the issue. This suggestion lead to a discussion of how developers implementing elements with metadata would notify the metadata sub committee of their use case. A discussion list was proposed. The idea being that developers would send in their use cases and the oligarchs on the sub c would approve or disprove. Incredibly, this suggestions was shot down by Bruce d'Arcus (OpenDocument Foundation). Bruce thought that any developer needing metadata support for particular elements should have to join the OASIS ODF Metadata SC like everyone else before their needs would be considered. ( i.e. - like the other oligarchs). At the next weeks meeting, Rob Weir showed up with a list of 14 spreadsheet related elements that IBM needed XML ID support for. Sun representatives Svante Schubert and Michael Brauer immediately approved the use, agreeing that OpenOffice would support that implementation. This how things work at OASIS ODF. Ever wonder why SVG or XForms support in ODF is so limited? It's because the specification directly reflects the limits of the OpenOffice implement
  • Gary Edwards on 02 Jun 09
     
    Sorry. Diigo cut my comment off about half way through. I've complained to Wade and Maggie about this problem, especially how it impacts and cripples the "Group Auto-Blog Post" feature . Months have gone by. Yet still the issue remains.
Paul Merrell

PC Pro: News: Google Docs accommodates Office 2007 file formats - 0 views

www.pcpro.co.uk/...-office-2007-file-formats.html

Google Docs OOXML

shared by Paul Merrell on 02 Jun 09 - Cached
  • Google has added support for the DOCX and XLSX file formats to the Google Docs office suite.
  • Google has now rectified this situation following the ratification of the Open XML standard last year, but anybody looking to import the PPTX files used by PowerPoint 2007 will need to wait. The files can be converted into a Google Docs-friendly format, but you'll lose formatting, themes and transition effects.
Alex Brown

Oracle's Ellison gambles with OpenOffice's future * The Register - 0 views

www.theregister.co.uk/...ellison_javafx_commitment

shared by Alex Brown on 04 Jun 09 - Cached
  • "We encourage the OpenOffice group to quickly build their version of a spread sheet or a word app using JavaFX," Ellison said.
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 04 Jun 09
       
      errr, what? And is OO.o's future now under Larry's direct command?!
Paul Merrell

untitled - 0 views

www.dpawson.co.uk/...090612.html

ODF specificity quality testability

shared by Paul Merrell on 18 Jun 09 - Cached
  • Most (quality) specifications provide clear instructions using those magic words SHALL, SHALL NOT, and MAY where those words have a defined meaning for an implementor. Paragraphs are clearly identified as either normative or informative. That way an implementor knows what they must and may implement to claim conformance against a specification. This approach has been well established over time as a sensible way for spec writers and implementors to work
  • Most (quality) specifications provide clear instructions using those magic words SHALL, SHALL NOT, and MAY where those words have a defined meaning for an implementor. Paragraphs are clearly identified as either normative or informative. That way an implementor knows what they must and may implement to claim conformance against a specification. This approach has been well established over time as a sensible way for spec writers and implementors to work That is the way quality specifications are written. For example, ISO/IEC's JTC 1 Directives (link to PDF) requires that international standards designed for interoperability "specify clearly and unambiguously the conformity requirements that are essential to achieve the interoperability." With that clarity, conformance is testable and can provide confidence of interoperability. A suite of tests may be developed and applied to an implementation to determine which tests pass, which fail, and hence arrive at an objective pronouncement on conformance of an implementation against the entirety of the specification.
  • In a quality specification, it should be feasible to select a normative paragraph, identify a conformance test for it, and make a clear statement that this test proves that an implementation meets (or fails to meet) that requirement. Call it a test plan: define the tests (test specification), define the expected set of results, and define what constitutes a "pass" of each test that establishes conformance. The plan then provides the matrix of test spec against requirement. Simple.
  • ...4 more annotations...
  • Rob Weir of IBM chaired (apology for the misuse of that last word) the formation list and then simply announced what the charter would be rather than seeking consensus among the list participants. As part of this process before that charter was produced and while I still naively believed that consensus was a goal, I sat down with ODF 1.1 and did a paragraph-by-paragraph review for testability. The numbers were quite revealing. I completely reviewed only the first four major sections and found very few clear requirements. The majority were mere statements with no normative language used to identify what was required or optional. Implementors would have to make their own interpretation.
  • It's ironic that the chair viewed as good news the fact that there were far fewer testable paragraphs than he had predicted. But his prediction of 10,000 test cases is probably far closer to how many testable paragraphs there should be; my counts were actually bad news.
  • All of the above leads to the interesting question of just how the chair expects to accomplish much that is useful in regard to ODF conformance testing before the specification is amended to tighten up the language and add clear requirements. The syntax conformity is already handled by validation against the schema, but the semantics are woefully under-specified.
  • Summary: ODF 1.1 isn't verifiable as a specification. From a fairly cursory review of the latest draft, ODF 1.2 will follow the same path. With OASIS now being more demanding regarding conformance requirements on every specification and with ISO/IEC taking a closer interest in liaison with the ODF TC, I find it hard to see how the ODF TC co-chairs can maintain this view toward verification.
Gary Edwards

Google's Microsoft Fight Starts With Smartphones | BNET Technology Blog | BNET - 0 views

industry.bnet.com/...-fight-starts-with-smartphones

openweb michael-hickens webkit ge

shared by Gary Edwards on 10 Jun 09 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 10 Jun 09
     
    .... "I recently described how Google's Wave, a collaboration tool based on the new HTML 5 standard, demonstrated the potential for Web applications to unglue Microsoft's hold on customers. My post quoted Gary Edwards, the former president of the Open Document Foundation, a first-hand witness to the failed attempt by Massachusetts to dump Microsoft and as experienced a hand at Microsoft-tilting as anyone I know......"
Alex Brown

Where is there an end of it? | No one supports ISO ODF today? - 0 views

www.adjb.net/...ne-supports-ISO-ODF-today.aspx

shared by Alex Brown on 10 Jun 09 - Cached
  • I changed the post to more precisely reflect the facts
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 10 Jun 09
       
      I think the word Americans use in circumstances like this is "busted".
Alex Brown

Microsoft and OpenDocument Format - At Last Some Compatibility? - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk - 0 views

www.eweekeurope.co.uk/...-last-some-compatibility--1082

shared by Alex Brown on 09 Jun 09 - Cached
  • It might have been helpful if Microsoft had targeted instead ODF 1.2,
    • Alex Brown
      Alex Brown on 09 Jun 09
       
      Sigh; people don't seem to get that 1.2 doesn't exist ...
Graham Perrin

Doug Mahugh : Standards-Based Interoperability - 0 views

blogs.msdn.com/...ds-based-interoperability.aspx

interop standard ODF OOXML Excel spreadsheet OpenFormula

shared by Graham Perrin on 28 Jul 09 - Cached
  • Standards-Based Interoperability
  • 05 June 09
  • Interoperability without Standards
  • ...46 more annotations...
  • First, let’s consider how software interoperability works when it is not standards-based. Consider the various ways that four applications can share data, as shown in the diagram to the right.  There are six connections between these four applications, and each connection can be traversed in either direction, so there are 12 total types of interoperability involved.
  • As the number of applications increases, this complexity grows rapidly.  Double the number of applications to 8 total, and there will be 56 types of interoperability between them:
  • through standards maintenance, transparency of implementation details, and collaborative interoperability testing.
    • Graham Perrin
      Graham Perrin on 28 Jul 09
       
      Issues relating to CalDAV are well addressed in these ways.
  • Here’s where those workarounds will need to be implemented: Note the complexity of this diagram.
  • In the real world, interoperability is almost never achieved in this way.  Standards-based interoperability is much better approach for everyone involved,
  • whether that standard is an open one such as ODF (IS26300)
  • or a de-facto standard set by one popular implementation.
  • or Open XML (IS29500)
  • The core premise of open standards-based interoperability is this:
  • each application implements the published standard as written, and this provides a baseline for delivering interoperability.
  • the existence of a standard addresses many of the issues involved, and the other issues can be addressed
  • In the standards-based scenario, the standard itself is the central mechanism for enabling interoperability between implementations: This diagram is much simpler
  • there is no question that users of other products are massively surprised by
  • How this all applies to Office 2007 SP2 I covered last summer the set of guiding principles that we used to guide the work we did to support ODF in Office 2007 SP2.
  • applied in a specific order
  • I’d like to revisit the top two guiding principles
  • Guiding Principle #1: Adhere to the ODF 1.1 Standard
  • Guiding Principle #2: Be Predictable
  • Being predictable is also known as the principle of least astonishment.
  • What about Bugs and Deviations? Of course, the existence of a published standard doesn’t prevent interoperability bugs from occurring.
  • deviations from the requirements
  • different interpretations
  • Our approach to the transparency issue has been to document the details of our implementation through published implementer notes.
  • Interoperability Testing The final piece of the puzzle is hands-on testing
  • What else would you like to know about how Office approaches document format interoperability?
  • a standard (evolved and improved as reality demands) is the proper foundation for resolving interoperabilty
  • All complex software has bugs, and some bugs can present significant challenges to interoperability.  Let’s consider the case that 3 of the 4 applications have bugs that affect interoperability, as shown in the diagram to the right.
  • (1) their spreadsheets having their formulas lost when interchanged with Excel 2007
  • (2) not being able to handle the formulase received in Excel 2007's ODF output.
  • I am creating my own fantasy about the state of affairs
    • Graham Perrin
      Graham Perrin on 28 Jul 09
       
      :-)
  • it is far too early to declare it to be unsuccessful
  • I cannot fault the Microsoft approach as incorrect
  • I was at the year-ago DII meeting where the guiding principles were announced and their application to spreadsheet formulas described.  I applauded the principles and understood the reasoning for formulas.
  • How this would impact various groups of users and non-users (who still want to interoperate) of Office 2007 did not surface in my consciousness.
  • there is NO published standard for ODF spreadsheet formulas yet.
  • Nor is there any de-facto standard that everyone agrees on.
  • the “spaghetti diagram" method, with all of the complexity and risk of bugs that entails
  • No implementer we know of has attempted that
  • In the case of spreadsheet formulas, help is on the way -- OpenFormula is under development for use with ODF 1.2.
  • I’d like to keep this thread on-topic
  • I appreciate the post, very good
  • Visually I would rather frame it in terms of convergence, a spiral.
  • and user satisfaction.
  • I doubt someone would ever find a magic bullet to interoperability
  • New Comments to this post are disabled
    • Graham Perrin
      Graham Perrin on 28 Jul 09
       
      Hurrah!
  • © 2009 Microsoft Corporation
  • Graham Perrin on 28 Jul 09
     
    Diagrams here are eye-catching.
Gary Edwards

Amazing Stuff: ThinkFree Office Compatibility with MSOffice compared to OpenOffice Comp... - 0 views

product.thinkfree.com/...compatibility

ThinkFree compatibility openoffice msoffice

shared by Gary Edwards on 05 Jun 09 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 05 Jun 09
     
    This is amazing stuff. With all the talk about OpenOffice ODF compatibility problems with existing MSOffice productivity environments and documents, this comparison is stunning. I stumbled across this Compatibility Comparison reading this article: ThinkFree Set to Launch The First Complete Android Office Suite. Documents To Go is currently the only provider of Word and Excel documents on Android. The ThinkFree Office comparisons to OpenOffice cover a number of familiar compatibility issues, with layout at the top of the list. ThinkFree Write 3.5 vs OpenOffice Writer 3.0 ".....When using a word processor to create documents, you really shouldn't have to worry about whether your client will be able to see the document as you intended." ".... However, if you use a low-cost solution like OpenOffice, you should be prepared for frustrations and disappointments....."
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