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Gary Edwards

It's All Over But For The Shouting :: Xandros to Provide Enhanced Interoperability Betw... - 0 views

www.marketwire.com/...release.do

iso odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Xandros, the leading provider of intuitive Linux solutions and cross platform interoperability tools, today announced it will join Microsoft and other companies to build and ship open source translators between documents stored in Ecma Office Open XML and Open Document Formats. The translators, being developed through the Open XML/ODF Translator project, will be made available to Xandros users via the Xandros Networks update facility. Every Xandros product that includes OpenOffice.org will be equipped with the translators. This announcement underscores the shared view of Xandros and Microsoft that competing office productivity applications should make it easy for customers to exchange files with one another and allow them to use their operating system and office productivity applications of choice. "This is good news for customers. Xandros and Microsoft share the view that competing office productivity applications should make it easy for customers to exchange files with one another," said Tom Robertson, general manager for Interoperability and Standards at Microsoft. "Mixed system environments are becoming more common, and we believe in delivering interoperability by design for the benefit of our customers. Our ongoing collaborative relationships with commercial open source companies like Xandros help us achieve that goal." "We are delighted to join forces with Microsoft and others to provide interoperability between standardized XML document formats," said Andreas Typaldos, Xandros CEO. "The work of the world is done using various document formats as well as operating systems, so it is vital to provide our customers with the means interoperate with ease in this diverse environment."
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    You have to read this!  Xandros is taking this interoperability garbage seriously!
Gary Edwards

Sun Sets Application Specific Limits on ODF Metadata - 0 views

sw.openoffice.org/...ReadMsg

interoperability iso linux odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument patents xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Fine; I hope that you also will specify the citation metadata then. Using unspecified metadata for *relevant* parts of the document in OOo can be the starting signal to kill ODF. I'm not sure if citation data is a "relevant part of the document" but without further investigation I assume it to be that.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    The battle to break ODF away from being limited to only those features supported by Sun's OpenOffice/StarOffice continues.  This eMail thread sets the stage for the upcoming presentation of the metadata proposal to the ODF mainline TC.

    SEction 1.4.3 of the metadata proposal is a list of existign ODF elements that developers can apply RDF to.  And the reason given fo rwhy the list is so constrained?  Svante Schubert, co-editor and Sun employee has claimed on more than a few occassions that the reason for limiting the lis tis that Sun will only support RDF on those particular ODF elements in OpenOffice/StarOffice.  Therefore, everyone is similarly limited!

    I kid you not. 
    ~ge~

Gary Edwards

Billions of Legacy Binary Documents -- Linux leaders plot hapless counterattack on Micr... - 0 views

talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html

ecma-376 iso microsoft odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • The point is that ODF has to be flexible enough so that the demand side of the equation can successfully convert their MSOffice documents to ODF. More important than simple one-way conversion is the need for high fidelity round trip conversion.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    This is a follow up comment to a question cocerning my previous post, "commercialization of interoperability".  The question from "mosborne" is as follows:

    A different viewI'm not on the ODF TC, but I have followed its evolution through the information publicly available at Oasis.

    My outside view of some of the various interoperability discussions you mention is different than yours. I saw a resistance to adoption of features if the sole reason was because OOXML did it that way. The dissenting members wanted a more substantial reason, not simply to add OOXML "features" to ODF.

    If the goal is to simply make ODF like OOXML, then what is the point? You would have conceded all control to Microsoft since they have effective control of OOXML.It's an interesting question, but not well informed.  The threads at OASIS ODF having to do with interoperability are focused on efforts to have our cake and eat it too. 

    The List Enhancement Proposal thread played out over a six month period.  And yes, it is true that Sun fought the Novell proposal because they felt new and innovative features for OpenOffice/StarOffice were more important than the interoperability CIO's and IT departments are demanding.   But that misses the more important point that Novell was able to craft their interoperability proposal exactly so that the precious advanced feature sets of applications that command les sthan 1% marketshare would be accommodated.

    What Sun and most others on the ODF TC don't get is that the markets have no use for these new and innovative feature sets unless and until they can transition their documents and business processes out of MSOffice.  If workgroup bound end users can't do that first, it won't matter how
Gary Edwards

Singing Kumbaya -- Linux leaders plot hapless counterattack on Microsoft - 0 views

talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html

interoperability iso linux odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument patents xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • have you noticed that IBM is softening their position on "harmonization"? There are a number of events to consider that might have influenced this change in tone:
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    More in that same "LiNUX Leaders plot counter attack on Microsoft" thread at ZDNet.  This time the issue is what has caused IBM to sing a differnet tune?  The tune known as "harmoniation".
Gary Edwards

Commercializing Interoperability -- Linux leaders plot hapless counterattack on Microsoft - 0 views

talkback.zdnet.com/5208-3513-0.html

interoperability iso linux odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument patents xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Is Microsoft commercializing "interoperability"? Is interoperability through privileged access to the interop API's now a strategic asset to be traded with partners in crime?
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    The first post in the ZDNet series discussing the many deals Microsoft is cutting with prominent LiNUX vendors.  My point is that interoperability plays a prominent role in each of these deals, and, the deals also involve partners supporting Microsoft directed interop between OpenOfficeXML and OpenDocument.  Coincidence? 

    I think not!

Gary Edwards

Wiki Rick Jelliffe - OOXML myths debunked? Up to our ears in ODF FUD - 0 views

www.openmalaysiablog.com/...rick_jelliffe_m.html

ecma-376 iso microsoft odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Additionally, ODF was not ratified with SVG, MathML, XLink, Zip and other W3C standards all together at the same time. Instead the prior W3C standards were already well established and approved in their own right and in their own time with the relevant experts of their specific domains vetting it. MSOOXML also incorporates proposed "standards" which failed in the marketplace and now is offered a "backdoor" to standardisation process by piggy backing this nebulous specification. (See VML vs SVG, and MathML vs Microsoft Office MathML) So there is a myth being built that ODF and its constituent parts are just as large as MSOOXML, and therefore MSOOXML is OK. I for one would rather MSOOXML be even larger; to cater for unknown tags like "lineWrapLikeWord6" or a Macro specification. However what troubles me is that the special relationship between Ecma and ISO should be abused with the fast tracking of this large specification.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Yoon Kit brings up an interesting point about the ISO consideration of MSOOXML (Ecma 376);  ISO approval of MSOOXML would backdoor a good many MS proprietary technologies that compete directly with W3C XML standards.

    YK gives the example of MS VML, which competes with the W3C SVG standard used by ODF.  He could have also cited that legacy versions of MSOffice (98-2003) make use of VML as the default graphic format, while MSOffice 2003 9with XML plugin) and MSOffice 2007 (by default) implements DrawingML as the replacement for VML. 

    So, would ISO approval of Ecma 376 backdoor VML and DrawingML in as "standards"?  Or MSOffice MathML?   One has to wonder since they are essential to MSOOXML.

Gary Edwards

Microsoft sets July 1 as Office 2003 OEM drop-dead date - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...article.do

ecma-376 iso microsoft odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Microsoft Corp. announced today that it will pull the plug on Office 2003 the last day of June, after which it won't ship the suite to original equipment manufacturers (OEM) and system builders.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Microsoft is closing off the exits!  MSOffice 2003 is the only application suite capable of producing Ecma 376 documents, and now it's getting EOL'd. 

    The ISO vote on Ecma 376 isn't scheduled until September. 
Gary Edwards

ODF and differences of opinion - ZDNet John Carrol - John Le'Bracage - 0 views

talkback.zdnet.com/5206-11048-0.html

carrol cdf lebracage odf ooxml opendocument w3c zdnet

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Just because we are garage challenged doesn't mean we can't find the back door to the big house :) The larger issue at stake here is not whether or not we have a garage, or what our contribution to ODF has been over the course of five years as active members of OASIS ODF. What it really comes down to is the implementation of ODF in the real world. The chickens came home to roost when Massachusetts started a year long pilot study regarding the implementation of ODF. The study began shortly after the OASIS approval of ODf 1.0, and ended in May of 2006. The results were nothing short of a disaster for ODF.
Gary Edwards

The MSOffice 2007 XML Extension Pack :: Business Process binding on steroids - 0 views

bp3.blogger.com/...simplesamplecs.JPG

iso odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    This is a screen shot of the new business process interface for MSOffice 2007. Writing add-ons, scripts, and line of business integration apps was never so easy. This is also how Smart Document based metadate, data binding, services binding, and workflow binding can quickly be added to any document object. Very cool. The ODF alternative to the highly proprietary Smart Documents functionality is the open XForms implementation model and, the new Metadata RDF/XML RDFa enhancements. True to form, ODF has chosen to reuse existing W3C standards. Smart Documents is proprietary, and it is set to be a Lotus Notes "intelligent document" killer. It's also the way Microsoft will slam the door on Google search. The Smart Documents metadata model will provide Microsoft network share croppers with the kind of search, re-use and re-purpose tools Googlers only dream about.
Gary Edwards

Choose Your Future :: You're in good hands with Microsoft - 0 views

www.microsoft.com/...userchoice.mspx

iso odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • With ISO/IEC having standardized Open Document Format (ODF) 1.0 and considering standardizing Ecma Office Open XML (Open XML), there is a lot of public discussion about document formats and whether the world should begin to focus on only one format or continue to see multiple formats developed and used over time. Microsoft believes that users should be able to choose among formats and pick the one that best meets their needs. We also believe in encouraging the continued evolution of computing and data formats. And we support the ratification of Open XML in ISO/IEC. There are several reasons for these views:
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    This the infamous Microsoft letter that many have misconstrued as an announcement of support for OpenDocument.  Only in a Microsoft universe can the statement, "We're not going to attack ODF" be taken as Micrsoft support for ODF.
Gary Edwards

The trap is set! Phony OASIS Messaging standard OK'd for Web services - 0 views

weblog.infoworld.com/...012609.html

apache ipr iso microsoft oasis odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument rand web-services ws xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • OASIS considers WS-ReliableMessaging critical for SOA, in that it can handle a variety of SOA requirements. WS-ReliableMessaging can be extended to enable integration with capabilities such as security. SOAP binding for interoperability is included. WS-ReliableMessaging is part of a series of Web services specifications dubbed WS-* that have been championed by companies such as Microsoft.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Check out the comments below this article.  There are links to Ian Foster of Globus and to the Marbux license disseration posted with the OpenDocument Foundation's NO VOTE at OASIS.
Gary Edwards

Microsoft Will Support ODF! But Only If It Doesn't 'Restrict Choice Among Formats' - 0 views

www.betanews.com/...1181922127

ecma-376 interoperability iso marbux microsoft odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • By Marbux posted Jun 19, 2007 - 3:16 PM Asellus sez: "I will not say OOXML is easy to implement, but saying ODF is easier to implement just by looking at the ISO specification is a fallacy." I shouldn't respond to trolls, but I will this time. Asellus is simply wrong. Large hunks of Ecma 376 are simply undocumented. And what's more, absolutely no vendor has a featureful app that writes to that format. Not even Microsoft. There's a myth that Ecma 376 is the same as the Office Open XML used by Microsoft. It is not. I've spend a few hundred hours comparing the Ecma 376 specification (the version of OOXML being considered at ISO) to the information about the undocumented APIs used by MS Office 2007 that recently sprung loose in litigation. See http://www.groklaw.net/p...Rpt_Andrew_Schulman.pdf Each of those APIs *should* have corresponding metadata in the formats, but are not in the Ecma 376 specification.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Incredible comment by Marbux!  With one swipe he takes out both Ecma 376 and ODF. 

    Microsoft has written a letter claiming that they will support ODF in MSOffice, but only if ISO approves Ecma 376 as a second office suite XML file format standard.  ODF was approved by ISO nearly a year ago.

    Criticizing Ecma 376 is easy.  It was designed to meet the needs of  a proprietary application, MSOffice, and, to meet the needs of the emerging MS Vista Stack of applications that spans desktop to server to device to web platforms.  It's filled with MS platform dependencies that make it impossibly non interoperable with anything not fully compliant with Microsoft owned API's.

    Criticizing ODF however is another matter entirely.  Marbux points to the extremely poor ODF interoperability record.  If MOOXML (not Ecma 376 - since that is a read only file format) is tied to vendor-application specific MSOffice, then ODF is similarly tied to the many vendor versions of OpenOffice/StarOffice.

    The "many vendor" aspect of OpenOffice is somewhat of a scam.  The interoperability that ODF shares across Novell Office, StarOffice, IBM WorkPlace, Red Office, and NeoOffice is entirely based on the fact that these iterations of OpenOffice are based on a single code base controlled 100% by Sun.  Which is exactly the case with MSOffice.  With this important exception - MOOXML (not Ecma 376) is interoperable across the entire Vista Stack!

    The Vista Stack is comprised of Exchange/SharePoint, MS Live, MS Dynamics, MS SQL Server, MS Internet Server, MS Grove, MS Collaboration Server, and MS Active Directory.   Behind these applications sits a an important foundation of shared assets: MOOXML, Smart Documents, XAML and .NET 3.0.  All of which can be worked into third party, Stack dependent applications through the Visual Studio .NET IDE.

    Here are some thoughts i wou
Gary Edwards

Is Open Source Dying? - 0 views

www.eweek.com/...0,1895,2148866,00.asp

iso linux odf ooxml open-source xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • But behind the scenes, things are not quite as rosy. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, which lived up to its left-leaning credentials (didn't Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer famously upbraid open-source proponents for being Communists?) broke important ground by mandating that state agencies switch to open-source platforms. There's just one problem: They can't seem to manage the transition. Sources close to the situation tell me that former state CIO Peter Quinn's resignation happened at least in part because of delaying tactics by vendors who publicly support open source but do their best to scuttle it behind the scenes.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Interesting topic which i've covered more fully with the OpenStack Blog : Connecting the Dots
Gary Edwards

Sun Supports OOXML as an ISO Standard? - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...article.do

iso odef odf ooxml openwave xhtml xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - No Cached
  • Sun Microsystems Inc., largely considered an avowed opponent of Open XML because of its own development and support for the competing, ODF-based StarOffice suite, found itself in the unexpected position of stating its support for ratifying Open XML -- albeit after some changes in the proposal are made.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Quote: Sun Microsystems Inc., largely considered an avowed opponent of Open XML because of its own development and support for the competing, ODF-based StarOffice suite, found itself in the unexpected position of stating its support for ratifying Open XML -- albeit after some changes in the proposal are made. "We wish to make it completely clear that we support DIS 29500 becoming an ISO Standard and are in complete agreement with its stated purposes of enabling interoperability among different implementations and providing interoperable access to the legacy of Microsoft Office documents," Jon Bosak, a Sun representative to V1, wrote in an e-mail to other committee members over the weekend. "Sun voted No on Approval because it is our expert finding, based on the analysis so far accomplished in V1, that DIS 29500 as presently written is technically incapable of achieving those goals, not because we disagree with the goals or are opposed to an ISO Standard that would enable them." Sun "found itself in the unexpected position of stating its support for ratifying OOXML"?  What???? This is the official position of Sun?

    For the near five years that i have been a member of the OASIS ODF TC, Sun has opposed
Gary Edwards

The Age of OOXML Computing - thanks a pant load Sun! - 0 views

www.cxotoday.com/...551-82889-906.html

odf odf-ix officeopenxml ooxml opendocument

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Why does Microsoft want another standard, what's the rationale? There are at least 4 good reasons why: *ODF started out and was completed as an XML format, specifically supporting OpenOffice with a tight scope around that product. *It wasn't until 2005 that the spec was offered up as a general XML office document format and consequently renamed to ODF. *No opportunity existed for Microsoft to actually participate in this full process - given the original scope, the 6 months between the re-naming of the spec to ODF, and its subsequent approval by OASIS as a standard. *The scope of the ODF spec never included even the basic requirements that Microsoft required to support a fully open format, and nor did the OASIS technical committee want to include these requirements.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Erwin's StarOffice Tango has an exhaustive response to this Microsoft Q&A. Correcting false statements by Microsoft
Gary Edwards

Serious Accessibility Issues with OOXML! Adaptive Technology Resource Centre Analysis ... - 0 views

atrc.utoronto.ca/index.php

ecma376 iso odef odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xhtml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Whoa, another must read analysis of OOXML. This one is provided by the University of Toronto, with a focus on "accessibility" issues. Not surprisingly, OOXML fails on nearly all counts.

    The authors recommend that we go back to work on improving ODF and the accessibility of ODF ready applications.
Gary Edwards

What will it be for ODF? Continuation of limited interop? Or a transition to Universa... - 0 views

lists.oasis-open.org/...msg00072.html

cdf conformance-clause interoperability marbux metadata odf odf-tc ooxml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
    • Gary Edwards
      Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
       
      Preserving metadata! Preserving application specific information. Preserving "unknown" information inside of a document
  • Unless we add conformance requirements for the preservation of metadata and processing instructions, the less featureful apps will never  be able to round-trip documents with the more featureful apps. Our language should require that. Personally, I believe that the software-as-an-end-point client-side office suites are dinosaurs at the end of their era. They are being finished off by a thousand cuts as users spend less and less time using them and more and more time using other apps, such as web apps. ODF either develops methods for interoperability among all apps or it will die along with the office suites. E.g., Microsoft knows this and is busily migrating its Office development budget across the Sharepoint/Exchange server hubs to the network. Meanwhile, this TC fiddles with preserving the 1995 software-as-an-endpoint vision.
  • Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
     
    Marbux is clearly at the top of his game here as he hammers the interoperability issue.
Gary Edwards

LinuxWorld | Game over for OpenDocument? - 0 views

www.linuxworld.com.au/...id;1800436990;pp;1;taxid;14

cdf compounddocument odef odf officeopenxml ooxml opendocument xhtml

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Gary Edwards

Vista Aiding Linux Desktop, Strategist Says - 0 views

www.eweek.com/...0,1759,2168426,00.asp

cdf echo-chamber linuxdesktop msoffice odf ooxml

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • Crawford said a corporate desktop needs to be focused on the business user, compliant with company standards, interoperable, secure, and able to be shipped with an enterprise kernel and managed remotely, and to have standard applications installed. "The Linux desktop can do all of that. It can be interoperable with earlier versions of the operating system, is generally interoperable with Windows, can ship with an enterprise kernel and can be remotely managed by existing management solutions," he said.
Gary Edwards

Novell CEO confirms that Microsoft is a reality | The Register - 0 views

www.theregister.co.uk/...novell_ceo_certification

desktop ix linux odf

shared by Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07 - Cached
  • It was a performance that saw Hovsepian call Microsoft a reality the community must work with
  • Skimming over the details of Microsoft's support, Hovespian said such deals are critical if Linux is going to give customers running mixed environments what they need, by delivering interoperability in the data center and on the desktop.
    • Gary Edwards
      Gary Edwards on 12 Dec 07
       
      No Kidding! The marketplace knows this full well. It's the FOSS and ODF Communities that are clueless. Interoperability with Microsoft bound documents, applications and processes must be dealt with before Linux and ODF systems can begin to penetrate the growing Microsoft Stack. This is why the ODF iX proposals, five of which were submitted to the ODF TC for discussion in the past year alone, were critical to the success of ODF in California, Massachusetts, Denmark, Belgium and the EU-IDABC. Too bad the ODF TC doesn't understand this importance and the need to accomodate the marketplace.
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