“The one thing I've said to him directly, and I would advise my Republican friends in Congress and supporters around the country, is just make sure that, as we go forward, certain norms, certain institutional traditions, don't get eroded, because there's a reason they're in place.”

Obama is also clearly still frustrated with how Republicans handled his Supreme Court nominee. “The fact that Mitch McConnell--the leader of the Republicans--was able to just stop a nomination almost a year before the next election and really not pay a political price for it,” Obama said. “That's a sign that the incentives for politicians in this town to be so sharply partisan have gotten so out of hand that we're weakening ourselves.”

What “disturbed me the most,” Obama said, about the intelligence finding that Russia tried to undermine the U.S. election was the response by some Republicans and, implicitly, Trump.

“In some circles, you've seen people suggest that Vladimir Putin has more credibility than the U.S. government. I think that's something new,” Obama said. “And I think it's a measure of how the partisan divide has gotten so severe that people forget we're on the same team.”

“Don't underestimate the guy,” Obama said. “Because he's going to be 45th president of the United States.”

Yet when various senators asked Carson to weigh in on specific programs that helped their constituents, he consistently pledged to keep them going. That included a rental-assistance demonstration that provides assistance to 4.5 million households, a community-development block grant that will provide $1.6 billion to Americans, including thousands affected by floods in Louisiana, and a program to rid housing of lead hazards. In fact, he said, a program to end veteran homelessness “needs more enhancements.” He also promised to embark on a nationwide “listening tour” to hear more about what needs to be improved at the department.And, despite his own repeated statements to cut down on expenses, he pledged, to the Democrat senator Brian Schatz of Hawaii, that he would advocate for a budget for HUD

“When there’s a Democrat in power, social-justice-minded people go to sleep, because they feel validated by what they hear on NPR.”

They’re hopeful that Trump’s election will spur more people to think critically about their lives. “Times like this really awaken people,” said Rachel Sarah. “Since [the election], we’ve started to feel really hopeful.” Trump’s election left Nicolas feeling sick to his stomach, he said, but he sees an upside. “When there’s a Democrat in power, social-justice-minded people go to sleep, because they feel validated by what they hear on NPR,” he said. The couple says they’re feeling more “awake” now, too. Trump’s election is “like a crescendo for the Christian anarchist call,” Nicolas said. “If we are citizens of another kingdom, and the empire is getting pretty ridiculous, it inspires us to take our convictions more seriously.”