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Gary Patton

The Western Wall Excavations, Jerusalem - Google Maps - 0 views

www.google.com/maps

family pics jerusalem religion

shared by Gary Patton on 23 Apr 12 - No Cached
  • Gary Patton on 23 Apr 12
     
    WOW! The new Street View treatment of Jerusalem by Google Maps is incredible. At these links, one can spend hours "walking around" in the Old City and among its excavations. gfp (2012-04-23)
Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

www.bib-arch.org/...jesus-last-supper.asp

bible scripture interpretation Jesus judiasm christianity archaeology history

shared by Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12 - No Cached
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Why would two people, Matthew and Luke, who were the more consistent eye witnesses to the accounts that they report copy Mark? It makes no sense. Mark was a boy while Jesus walked Israel and did not travel about with Him. Mark also was not an original Disciple of Jesus and reported on most the events in his Gospel based on second hand information from the Disciples who did travel with jesus, one can assume. I feel the whole Mathew and Luke copied Mark plus Mark is based on some lost document called "Q" theory of many scholars is rooted in a desire by many to deny or ignore God's supernatural involvement in the documentation of His Son's incarnation and ignores the fact that Matthew and John were eye witnesses to all of what they wrote about. They had no need to copy but had their own perspective on what they heard and saw as do modern witnesses. Likewise, modern research indicates that the reports of most eye witnesses are highly unreliable. If God was not involved, one would have to question the accounts. If that one is not a Jesus Follower and without faith in the supernatural inerancy of the Biblical accounts of both the Old and New Covenants, that's another matter entirely.
  • Thus, in fact we don’t really have three independent sources here at all. What we have, rather, is one testimony (probably Mark), which was then copied twice (by Matthew and Luke).
  • Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This April 2012 article in BAR analyzes the similarities between the Jewish Seder and what Christians call Jesus' "Last Supper" and the timing of the event based on archaeological evidence. gfp (2012-04-07)
  • ...25 more annotations...
  • the Gospels—with their hatred of the Jewish authorities
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I wonder why the author construes an historical report of what the writer considered 'truth' and 'facts' as 'hatred'. The history of Christianity may be replete with antisemitism, especially some of the protestant Reformers of the Catholic Church, like Luther particulalrly. However, I feel the charge of hatred in the Gospel accounts of the Jewish involvement in the death of Jesus is an unfair one. The Roman authorities were jst as responsible for the crucifixion of Yeshua/Jesus. In fact the Bible seems to make clear that the sin nature and sins of every person who has ever or ever will live is the real reason for Jesus' death. We are ALL responsible ...not just the Jewish and Roman authorities!
  • John’s timing of events supports the Christian claim that Jesus himself was a sacrifice and that his death heralds a new redemption, just as the Passover offering recalls an old one. Even so, John’s claim that Jesus was killed just before Passover began is more plausible than the synoptics’ claim that Jesus was killed on Passover.
  • the Last Supper could not in fact have been a Passover Seder.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Christian historical tradition labels "The Last Supper" a Seder ... not Jesus. He is recorded to have simply called it the "last time He would eat this bread and drink this wine until ...". It was "the time for passover". That Jesus duplicated many Seder rituals seems to be clear from the Gospel accounts ...even if the timing was off. What's the big deal? The REALLY important thing about the Easter events is that Jesus died for humankind's sin nature and sins. Plus, the other big historical event is His resurrection from the grave as proof that God accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of "all who will believe" in Him and what He did for us!
  • That Christians celebrated the Eucharist on a daily or weekly basis (see Acts 2:46–47) underscores the fact that it was not viewed exclusively in a Passover context (otherwise, it would have been performed, like the Passover meal, on an annual basis).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Jesus called us to "do this", i.e., celebrate His sacrifice by eating together as a community of Believers in and Followers of Him. He did not call us to celebrate Passover an eternal commandment for Jews only. Jesus claimed that he had come to fulfill "all the [requirements of the] law and the prophets"!
  • Moreover, while the narrative in the synoptics situates the Last Supper during Passover, the fact remains that the only foods we are told the disciples ate are bread and wine—the basic elements of any formal Jewish meal.
  • “Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant’” (Matthew 26:26–28=Mark 14:22; see also Luke 22:19–20). Is this not a striking parallel to the ways in which Jews celebrating the Seder interpret, for example, the bitter herbs eaten with the Passover sacrifice as representing the bitter life the Israelites experienced as slaves in Egypt?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      I'd suggest it is more a replacement of, as I note above, rather than a parallel with a Seder!
  • For many Jews (especially non-Orthodox Jews), the process of development continues, and many modern editions of the Haggadah contain contemporary readings of one sort or another. Even many traditional Jews have, for instance, adapted the Haggadah so that mention can be made of the Holocaust.8
  • Almost everyone doing serious work on the early history of Passover traditions, including Joseph Tabory, Israel Yuval, Lawrence Hoffman, and the father-son team of Shmuel and Ze’ev Safrai, has rejected Finkelstein’s claims for the great antiquity of the bulk of the Passover Haggadah.
  • It’s not that rabbinic literature cannot be trusted to tell us about history in the first century of the Common Era. It’s that rabbinic literature—in the case of the Seder—does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder was performed before the destruction of the Temple.b
  • the Holy One, blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Here may lie the roots of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • King of Kings, the Holy One Blessed be He
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      As I wonder in the e-Sticky Note immediately above, here may lie the root of the similar Muslim practise regarding their reverance, not for God's holy name(s) but, for their human prophet Mohammud. Many Muslims are taught to rever their prophet at a level that approaches worship. The Judeo-Christian Bible reserves worship ONLY for Almighty God ...not the demonically inspired construct called Allah and certainly not a murderous Arab warrior from the 7th Century.
  • Might not Jesus be presenting a competing interpretation of these symbols? Possibly. But it really depends on when this Rabban Gamaliel lived. If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • Virtually all scholars working today believe that the Haggadah tradition attributing the words quoted above to Gamaliel refers to the grandson, Rabban Gamaliel the Younger, who lived long after Jesus had died.14 One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • And presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      A Jesus Follower can know that s(he) knows by faith in the accuracy of our Scriptures. The Scriptures make clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant. he explains clearly a NEW symbolism for the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt but... all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • Having determined that the Last Supper was not a Seder and that it probably did not take place on Passover, I must try to account for why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      The Last Supper being a Seder meal on the Day of Passover is NOT the key issue for a Jesus Follower as I mentioned in my e-Sticky Note above. The key on the cotrary is Who Jesus was as the God-man and what he was about to do for us on His cross on cavalry.
  • Another motive relates to a rather practical question: Within a few years after Jesus’ death, Christian communities (which at first consisted primarily of Jews) began to ask when, how and even whether they should celebrate or commemorate the Jewish Passover
  • The Quartodeciman custom of celebrating Easter beginning on the evening following the 14th day apparently began relatively early in Christian history and persisted at least into the fifth century C.E.
  • Early on, a number of Christians—Quartodecimans and others—felt that the appropriate way to mark the Jewish Passover was not with celebration, but with fasting.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Interestingly, no where, that I can find in the Old or New Covenants, does God command or even suggest that His people should fast. I have not extensively researched the issue but, I suspect I'll discover that, this propably is a Jewish ritual that was carried on by early Christians, i.e., another man-made tradition. There is the reference in Matthew 6:16-18 where Jesus says: "When you fast ...." This is NOT a command but simply, in context, an observational reference to a practise that was common among religious Jews ...the group to whom Jesus was speaking. I comment further on this issue in e-Sticky Note on the Matthew 6 Scripture at http://diigo.com/0piw0 and in the article on fasting from Christianity today at http://diigo.com/0p9iv .
  • Thus, until Jesus’ kingdom is fulfilled, Christians should not celebrate at all during Passove
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      here again, and depsite what Karl Kuhn says, the issue is not celebrating Passover, but Jesus' command to eat together as a group of his Followers whenever we can and "remember" him.
  • By calling the Last Supper a Passover meal, these Jewish-Christians were trying to limit Christian practice in three ways. Like the Passover sacrifice, the recollection of the Last Supper could only be celebrated in Jerusalem, at Passover time, and by Jews.c
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      This heresy didn't last very long. Some Messianic Jews still today follow Old Covenant feast and other practises that other Christians do not.
  • there are various reasons why the early church would have tried to “Passoverize” the Last Supper tradition.
  • This too is a Passoverization of the Jesus tradition, but it is one that contradicts the identification of the Last Supper with the Seder or Passover meal.
  • Surely the depiction of the Last Supper as a Passover observance could play a part in this larger effort of arguing that Jesus’ death echoes the Exodus from Egypt
  • a widely popular Paschal sermon, which could well be called a “Christian Haggadah,” reflecting at great length on the various connections between the Exodus story and the life of Jesus
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Typology as some call it i.e., seeing Old Covenant people, practises and places as 'types' or 'shadows' pointing to or representing Jesus is common in some Christian circles and with some teachers.
  • Contrary to popular belief, the Catholic custom of using unleavened wafers in the Mass is medieval in origin. The Orthodox churches preserve the earlier custom of using leavened bread.23 Is it not possible to see the switch from using leavened to unleavened bread as a “Passoverization” of sorts?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      And regardless of leavened or unleavened bread or wafers, these kinds of issue are seen by many Jesus Followers as focusing on dead and deadly religious ritual, regalia and rules rather than on relationship, revelation and romance with a living God through Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
Gary Patton

Liberal Christian Scholarship ...Redaction Criticism, and Islam (Part 1) - 0 views

aomin.org/...index.php

christianity Islam christians muslims religion bible scripture scripture interpretation

shared by Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12 - No Cached
  • Some Brief Thoughts Regarding Liberal Scholarship, Redaction Criticism, and Islam
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      In this article, Dr. James White, of Alpha & Omega Ministries examines the dangers of "Redaction and Form Criticism" in Christian scholarship (sic) and the refusal by Muslim scholars to apply it to Islam while using it to attack Christians beliefs based on our Bible. gfp (2012-03-27)
  • the vast majority of those who embrace form and redaction criticism in all of its flavors and kinds do so out of tradition, not out of having examined the case set forth in defense of these methods.
  • I truly wondered why the Lord had closed all other doors and put me in that context, but, now I know) forced me to consider deeply why I could not in good conscience embrace the "status quo" of modern NT scholarship
  • ...18 more annotations...
  • I found, over and over again, the same kind of bald anti-supernaturalism at work, even amongst those who did not openly espouse such a view in their "religious life."
  • This kind of double-mindedness was epidemic in Christian theology then. It is still quite prevalent, but in the past decade more and more have shed the religious trappings and are seeking to be consistent, not even bothering with the religious garb any longer.
  • I would challenge (respectfully
  • saying the gospels were quite late, post AD 70, for example, I would ask why they would date them so late (and, as a result, deny the eyewitness authorship of, say, Matthew)
  • we would date them late because…of theories. Theories about how documents develop (in the natural world). Theories about how the early church developed (based upon, again, how such things happen in the natural world). And of course the big reason was…they had to have been written after AD 70 because, well, they couldn't have been written before otherwise they would contain…prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem! And we all know prophecy doesn't really exist, so there!
  • I only learned later in seminary and after graduation how confident scholarship had been in the past in giving even later dates, German scholarship, for example, having dated John as late as AD 175, only to have those dates thrown to the wind by manuscript discoveries.
  • the "consensus of scholarship," especially in a day when humanism and naturalistic materialism has become the religious dogma of the society, and of higher education, is not an option for the faithful follower of the teachings of Jesus the Messiah.
  • For years Shabir Ally had been making a presentation wherein he presents the "snowball" argument. It is a basic anti-gospel argument based upon a rather simplistic viewpoint of the origination of the gospels.
  • Shabir thinks there is an over-riding impetus on the part of both Matthew and Luke to "grow" Jesus, assuming, of course, an evolution in the development of Christology (another assumption that is just accepted, never proven). So, Matthew and Luke are looking for ways to "improve" on Jesus---which puts them in the category of deceivers, really, at the very least from an Islamic viewpoint
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      Muslims who, like Imam Ally have a minimal knowldge of the New Covenat and wish to feign politness, can use this "improvement" approach. It prevents them from having to use the blunt English word change when attacking Scriptures validity. During the debate, I heard a Muslim and a Christian in the seats immediately behind me discussing the semantical difference between these words. The Christian suspected, as do I, that Imam Ally was accusing the Apostles Mathew and Luke of being "liars".
  • examples of where Matthew was "growing" Jesus
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      "Growing" is Dr. White's word. Imam Ally never used it. Instead, he stated candidly that Mathew and Luke intentionally "deified" a human Prophet which Muslims say Yeshua only was because "Allah doesn't begat" (Qur'an 23:88-91).
  • Shabir did not know that Mark used the Greek term κύριος (kurios) when he was making his presentations before 2006, but he does now. But still, in our debate in Toronto, he argued that in fact this is still an example supportive of his thesis, no matter what his understanding had been before, for "lord of the house" is still different from "Lord." He likewise cited a scholar who, writing on the "synoptic problem," likewise mentions this "change."
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      In other words, Imam Ally has found an obfuscating, so-called, Christian author to justify what he now knows is a 'lie" that he wishes to still feed to his ignorant Muslim audience, knowing that they will believe him over Dr. White.
  • let's talk about how this text could be seen in a very different fashion.
  • Let's admit something: We do not know when any of the gospels were written. They have no date stamps on them. If we examine the internal material of the Synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) without naturalistic biases, we would have to conclude they were written between 35 and about 65 AD (i.e., after the crucifixion but prior to the opening of hostilities leading to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in AD 70)
  • As Richard Bauckham has pointed out (and his role in our debate was most interesting, and again illustrated that I really do not believe Dr. Ally understands my point on this matter), the eyewitnesses to the events of the gospel continued in the church for many decades, forming a very important core element of the continuation of the gospel message.
  • The gospel story began to be proclaimed by the eyewitnesses and the first generation of believers immediately after Pentecost. It spread like wildfire, turning the world upside down. It spread both by zeal as well as by persecution. The oral tradition of the church was the context out of which the gospels themselves were written. The gospel writers were fully aware of that tradition. They were not seeking to supplant it, but to organize it and preserve it in yet another form.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      During the debate, I could not understand why Dr. White kept referring to the "oral tradition" as he does here without once making the powerful point that the Gospel writers were the originators of the tradition as the disciples of Jesus. They were writing about their eye witness accounts ...not recounting an oral tradion circulated first by others.
  • This oral tradition, something shared by the entire community, is the source out of which they drew their narrative.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 27 Mar 12
       
      It is the source only to the extend that they, themselves, were the creaters of the so-called "oral tradition" as members of Jesus "inside group of disciples".
  • If we assume that Matthew and Mark are not liars, that they are not dishonest men, and that they are seeking to communicate a message faithfully, drawing from the tradition known to them, we conclude, upon examination of numerous texts such as the above, that
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      Here Dr. White writes again like the Gospel accounts were repeated by the Apostles from what others said rather than them writing down the stories in which they, themselves, particiapted with Jesus. Dr. White's approach confuses me because, to me, it doesn't make the point regarding eye-witness testimony!
  • we can see that both are giving us perfectly proper renditions of the same incident and the same words, one in fuller form than the other, both seeking to communicate the same concept, though to two different audiences.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Mar 12
       
      Police and lawyer studies confirm this type of variiance is common between eye witness accounts when an event is seem from different perspectives through the experiences and mindset of unique people. I'm unclear why Dr. white doesn't state this fact which reinforces his hypothesis about Scripture's timeline and seeming contradictions.
Gary Patton

Rev. 21 VOICE - "It's Down Not Up Jesus Followers Go At The End" - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture scripture interpretation heaven rapture

shared by Gary Patton on 29 May 13 - No Cached
  • Revelation 21
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 29 May 13
       
      "Heaven is not the end-destination of Jesus Followers. It's earth! We make a U-Turn and come back down to the "New Earth" after meeting Jesus in the air." ~ gfp '42™ Blessings, GaryFPatton 2013-05-28 
  •  And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride on her wedding day, adorned for her husband and for His eyes only.
Gary Patton

Was Jesus' Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review - 0 views

www.bib-arch.org/...jesus-last-supper.asp

shared by Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12 - No Cached
  • If he lived later than Jesus, then it would make no sense to view Jesus’ words as based on Rabban Gamaliel’s.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would work from the premise that Yeshua's/Jesus' words during his last Supper on earth, 'till His return at the end of times, were inspired by God's Holy Spirit ...like all His other recorded comments in the Scriptures.
  • One piece of evidence for this appears in the text quoted above, in which Rabban Gamaliel is said to have spoken of the time “when the Temple was still standing”—as if that time had already passed
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Like many scholars, including some Christian ones, statements like this one are often rooted in a disbelief of the supernatural plus a denial of the possibility that God gave Gamaliel, the Grandfather, a prophetic "word of knowledge"! Prophesy can place the words in the elder Gamaliel's mouth who did live at the time of Jesus who also prophesied the soon-coming (about 40 years later) destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
  • presumably they would have engaged in conversation pertinent to the occasion. But we cannot know for sure.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      The Scripture makes clear, not 'presumably', that Jesus discussed His replacement of an Old Covenant commandment with a New Covenant one while explaining the NEW symbolism of the bread and wine as remembrances and tokens of His sacrificed body and blood on behalf of all who would believe ...NOT the Jews deliverance from Egypt... but all humankind's route to deliverance from the penalty of our sin nature and sins (Romans 3:23 & 6:23) through Him!
  • ...1 more annotation...
  • why the synoptic Gospels portray the Last Supper as a Passover meal.
Gary Patton

Muslim Brotherhood Declares 'Mastership of World' as Ultimate Goal :: Raymond Ibrahim - 0 views

www.raymondibrahim.com/...d-declares-mastership-of-world

Islam islamism middle east muslim brotherhood

shared by Gary Patton on 18 Jun 12 - No Cached
  • Although many Muslim leaders openly articulate their efforts as part of a larger picture—one that culminates in the resurrection of a caliphate adversarial by nature to all things non-Muslim—many Western leaders see only the moment, either out of context or, worse, in a false context built atop wishful thinking.
  • This narrow-sighted approach sometimes leads to absurdities,
  • Of course, all Islamists have the same goal: the establishment of a sharia-enforcing caliphate.
  • ...8 more annotations...
  • more and more clerics feel they are nearing their ultimate goal of resurrecting the caliphate, the capital of which is to be Jerusalem.
  • Dr. Muhammad Badi, supreme leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, said: "The Brotherhood is getting closer to achieving its greatest goal
  • a long term goal that requires utilizing events, waiting, making appropriate preparations and prior designs
  • establishing a righteous and fair ruling system [based on Islamic sharia], with all its institutions and associations, including a government evolving into a rightly guided caliphate and mastership of the world.
  • a comprehensive and total reform of all aspects of life." The leader of the Brotherhood continued
  • Western leaders have their intellectual blinders shut so tight, frozen before the word "democracy"—even if "Arab spring" people-power leads to fascism
  • the Muslim Brotherhood and all its offshoots can rest assured that, so long as they do not engage in direct terrorism, they can continue unfettered on their decades-long march to resurrecting the caliphate
  • Muslim Brotherhood Declares 'Mastership of World' as Ultimate Goal
  • Gary Patton on 18 Jun 12
     
    "True Muslims Are Fundamentalists By Definition" The Muslim Brotherhood's goals are all rooted firmly in the clear statements of the Qur'an. This is the case with all Islamist groups because Islamism is NOT a radical political ideology it is the total lifestyle commanded by Islam's Holy Books. Islam brooks no variance from it's fundamentalist tenets and, therefore, moderate Muslims are not real Muslims according to their own Holy Book. gfp (2012-01-12)
Gary Patton

Prayer for Jerusalem, Prayer Call Guide 2013.pdf - 0 views

greatercalling.org/...PPJ_Prayer_Call_Guide_2013.pdf

israel israeli-arab prayer islam islamism islamization jihad jews judiasm

shared by Gary Patton on 12 Sep 13 - No Cached
  • Gary Patton on 12 Sep 13
     
    Jewish anti-Semitism is growing at an alarming rate. This is evident not only in Muslim countries, but in Europe, Canada, Hispanic countries and on college campuses both here and abroad. Most statistics point to a level of anti- Semitism that is at the level found in Europe right before World War II. GaryFPatton (2013-10-06) . "
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