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Gary Patton

Liberal Christian Scholarship ...Redaction Criticism, and Islam (Part 1) - 0 views

  • Some Brief Thoughts Regarding Liberal Scholarship, Redaction Criticism, and Islam
    • Gary Patton
       
      In this article, Dr. James White, of Alpha & Omega Ministries examines the dangers of "Redaction and Form Criticism" in Christian scholarship (sic) and the refusal by Muslim scholars to apply it to Islam while using it to attack Christians beliefs based on our Bible. gfp (2012-03-27)
  • the vast majority of those who embrace form and redaction criticism in all of its flavors and kinds do so out of tradition, not out of having examined the case set forth in defense of these methods.
  • I truly wondered why the Lord had closed all other doors and put me in that context, but, now I know) forced me to consider deeply why I could not in good conscience embrace the "status quo" of modern NT scholarship
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  • I found, over and over again, the same kind of bald anti-supernaturalism at work, even amongst those who did not openly espouse such a view in their "religious life."
  • This kind of double-mindedness was epidemic in Christian theology then. It is still quite prevalent, but in the past decade more and more have shed the religious trappings and are seeking to be consistent, not even bothering with the religious garb any longer.
  • I would challenge (respectfully
  • saying the gospels were quite late, post AD 70, for example, I would ask why they would date them so late (and, as a result, deny the eyewitness authorship of, say, Matthew)
  • we would date them late because…of theories. Theories about how documents develop (in the natural world). Theories about how the early church developed (based upon, again, how such things happen in the natural world). And of course the big reason was…they had to have been written after AD 70 because, well, they couldn't have been written before otherwise they would contain…prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem! And we all know prophecy doesn't really exist, so there!
  • I only learned later in seminary and after graduation how confident scholarship had been in the past in giving even later dates, German scholarship, for example, having dated John as late as AD 175, only to have those dates thrown to the wind by manuscript discoveries.
  • the "consensus of scholarship," especially in a day when humanism and naturalistic materialism has become the religious dogma of the society, and of higher education, is not an option for the faithful follower of the teachings of Jesus the Messiah.
  • For years Shabir Ally had been making a presentation wherein he presents the "snowball" argument. It is a basic anti-gospel argument based upon a rather simplistic viewpoint of the origination of the gospels.
  • Shabir thinks there is an over-riding impetus on the part of both Matthew and Luke to "grow" Jesus, assuming, of course, an evolution in the development of Christology (another assumption that is just accepted, never proven). So, Matthew and Luke are looking for ways to "improve" on Jesus---which puts them in the category of deceivers, really, at the very least from an Islamic viewpoint
    • Gary Patton
       
      Muslims who, like Imam Ally have a minimal knowldge of the New Covenat and wish to feign politness, can use this "improvement" approach. It prevents them from having to use the blunt English word change when attacking Scriptures validity. During the debate, I heard a Muslim and a Christian in the seats immediately behind me discussing the semantical difference between these words. The Christian suspected, as do I, that Imam Ally was accusing the Apostles Mathew and Luke of being "liars".
  • examples of where Matthew was "growing" Jesus
    • Gary Patton
       
      "Growing" is Dr. White's word. Imam Ally never used it. Instead, he stated candidly that Mathew and Luke intentionally "deified" a human Prophet which Muslims say Yeshua only was because "Allah doesn't begat" (Qur'an 23:88-91).
  • Shabir did not know that Mark used the Greek term κύριος (kurios) when he was making his presentations before 2006, but he does now. But still, in our debate in Toronto, he argued that in fact this is still an example supportive of his thesis, no matter what his understanding had been before, for "lord of the house" is still different from "Lord." He likewise cited a scholar who, writing on the "synoptic problem," likewise mentions this "change."
    • Gary Patton
       
      In other words, Imam Ally has found an obfuscating, so-called, Christian author to justify what he now knows is a 'lie" that he wishes to still feed to his ignorant Muslim audience, knowing that they will believe him over Dr. White.
  • let's talk about how this text could be seen in a very different fashion.
  • Let's admit something: We do not know when any of the gospels were written. They have no date stamps on them. If we examine the internal material of the Synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) without naturalistic biases, we would have to conclude they were written between 35 and about 65 AD (i.e., after the crucifixion but prior to the opening of hostilities leading to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in AD 70)
  • As Richard Bauckham has pointed out (and his role in our debate was most interesting, and again illustrated that I really do not believe Dr. Ally understands my point on this matter), the eyewitnesses to the events of the gospel continued in the church for many decades, forming a very important core element of the continuation of the gospel message.
  • The gospel story began to be proclaimed by the eyewitnesses and the first generation of believers immediately after Pentecost. It spread like wildfire, turning the world upside down. It spread both by zeal as well as by persecution. The oral tradition of the church was the context out of which the gospels themselves were written. The gospel writers were fully aware of that tradition. They were not seeking to supplant it, but to organize it and preserve it in yet another form.
    • Gary Patton
       
      During the debate, I could not understand why Dr. White kept referring to the "oral tradition" as he does here without once making the powerful point that the Gospel writers were the originators of the tradition as the disciples of Jesus. They were writing about their eye witness accounts ...not recounting an oral tradion circulated first by others.
  • This oral tradition, something shared by the entire community, is the source out of which they drew their narrative.
    • Gary Patton
       
      It is the source only to the extend that they, themselves, were the creaters of the so-called "oral tradition" as members of Jesus "inside group of disciples".
  • If we assume that Matthew and Mark are not liars, that they are not dishonest men, and that they are seeking to communicate a message faithfully, drawing from the tradition known to them, we conclude, upon examination of numerous texts such as the above, that
    • Gary Patton
       
      Here Dr. White writes again like the Gospel accounts were repeated by the Apostles from what others said rather than them writing down the stories in which they, themselves, particiapted with Jesus. Dr. White's approach confuses me because, to me, it doesn't make the point regarding eye-witness testimony!
  • we can see that both are giving us perfectly proper renditions of the same incident and the same words, one in fuller form than the other, both seeking to communicate the same concept, though to two different audiences.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Police and lawyer studies confirm this type of variiance is common between eye witness accounts when an event is seem from different perspectives through the experiences and mindset of unique people. I'm unclear why Dr. white doesn't state this fact which reinforces his hypothesis about Scripture's timeline and seeming contradictions.
Gary Patton

Three John 1 - 0 views

shared by Gary Patton on 27 Aug 12 - No Cached
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    NIV intro verses
Gary Patton

"Doctrine of Retrobation" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He (B)hardens whom He desires.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Briefly, the doctrine of predestination teaches that God, in his sovereignty, elects those who will receive the benefits of salvation and eternal life in Jesus Christ and passes over the rest, who by their sin and rebellion against the holy commands of God, will be sentenced to eternal damnation. This key verse, 18, in the context of the whole passage, seems to many Jesus Followers, to be the other side of the coin from Predestination of "the 'Elect of God" i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". Some Christian theologians call the exercise of God's sovereignty by Him in pre-deciding who will, and, therefore who will not, spend eternity with Him in His Kingdom, "Double Predestination". In using this term, they refer mainly to Romans 8:29-30 in the context of a passage about God's love at http://diigo.com/0lc07 . The reason some add the adjective 'double' to the doctrine of Predestination is because God's 'choosing' or 'election' of some individuals includes His 'non-election' of others ...by definition they say. These Christians also, and harshly some say, call the doctrine of 'non-election' the "Doctrine of Divine Reprobation" (God passing over the reprobate*). Those who use the term argue that, given the eternal consequences of not choosing the Gospel of Jesus (also called Yeshua), a clear warning is crucial to help people better understand the consequences of spending eternity separated from God. Divine Reprobation according to this theology's supporters seems to be Biblical based on the following passages besides this one in context: * Matthew 11:25-26; * Romans 9:17-22; * 2 Timothy 2:19-20; * Jude 4; * 1 Peter 2:8. So Biblically speaking, they argue, anyone who rejects the doctrine that God 'dis-elects' the reprobate has a problem explaining the above passages in Scripture in any other context. * 'Reprobate' is both a noun and a verb. "A reprobate" is an evil person. "To reprobate" is to "condemn to damnation" as explained in the dict
  • For (E)who resists His will?
    • Gary Patton
       
      There are generally "Two Views of Onus in Human Salvation" as I understand the theology of Christian salvation. (For me, theology is simply "what a person believes about God.) Some argue that because God is omniscient*, He knew before the beginning of time who would choose to believe in The Gospel Of Jesus (Yeshua) at all points in the future, He elects them for salvation and empowers their salvation by giving them the faith to do so. Those who follow "reformed theology" reject this theorem because, they say, it denies God's absolute sovereignty and puts the control in salvation in a wo(man)'s choice and hands. (Some call this latter theory re the preeminence of man in salvation "Armenianism".) However, others argue that Romans 3:11 seems to clearly say that "no one seeks God" of their own will. Therefore, some folks believe that anyone who becomes saved does so only because of God's loving grace for that person. God chooses for His own sovereign reasons to gracefully gift those the New Covenant (Testament) calls "the elect" with the faith they need to be saved. Only this way will we choose to believe the Gospel of Jesus and follow Him. In the opinion of some Jesus Followers, it is not our desire that is the onus in salvation and long-term destiny according to Ephesians 2:8-10 at http://diigo.com/0n20e .
  • Romans 9:17-22
    • Gary Patton
       
      The Lost Are Truly Lost ...But Are The Damned Truly Damned? Romans 9:17-18 and 21-22 in the context of the whole passage is the other side of the coin from Predestination of the 'Elect' i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". gfp (2011-11-21)
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    Romans 9:17-18 and 21-22 in the context of the whole passage is the other side of the coin from Predestination of the 'Elect' i.e. Predestination of those "not elected". gfp (2011-11-21)
Gary Patton

Jesus Promises to Send Holy Spirit - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
  • After a little while (G)the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me
  • you will know that (J)I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
  • ...3 more annotations...
  • Gr Paracletos, one called alongside to help; or Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor
  • John 14:15-21
  • If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
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    In John 14:15-21 Jesus comforts his first Followers by sharing with them that after His death, resurrection and return to heavenly Father that God will send Holy Spirt to be with them forever by living in them to empower them so Yeshua/Jesus can continue to live his life on earth through them.
Gary Patton

Canadian PM: I Will Defend Israel 'whatever the cost' - YouTube - 0 views

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    Prime Minister Stephen Harper says he is prepared to suffer any political backlash that comes his way for speaking out against anti-Israel rhetoric plus Canada will defend Israel "at any cost".
Gary Patton

The Full Armour of God - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • For our (E)struggle is not against [a](F)flesh and blood, but (G)against the rulers, against the powers, against the (H)world forces of this (I)darkness, against the (J)spiritual forces of wickedness in (K)the heavenly places.
    • Gary Patton
       
      A Jesus Follower's real enemies are the demons that inspire and motivate sinful people and the truly evil ones with who we must fight while on this earth.
  • Put on the full armor of God
  • be strong in the Lord and in (B)the strength of His might. 11
  • ...5 more annotations...
  • able to stand firm
  • so that you will be able to (M)resist in (N)the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm
  • the (V)sword of the Spirit
  • The Armor of God
    • Gary Patton
       
      You will be intrigued by what you can discover about the relationship between 'insurgency' and a Jesus Follower's warrior-interaction with and commanded-response to present Spiritual Warfare even in the short introduction to: "The Lling and The Stone ...On war in the 21st century". Hammes, Col. Thomas X, USMC. Hardcover Book, 2006. at . If you have any Muslim Friends or neighbours, you also will find helpful the author's insider-based comments on the reality of modern warfare and especially modern, violent, Islamist Jihad around the world. gfp (2011-09-15)
  • Ephesians 6:10-17
    • Gary Patton
       
      Ephesians 6:10-17 describes the Spiritual Weapons that a Jesus Follower is to use while waging peace on the earth as Jesus commands in Matthew 5:38-45 at http://diigo.com/0kmlr.
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    Ephesians 6:10-17 describes the Spiritual Weapons that a Jesus Follower is to use while waging peace on the earth as Jesus commands in Matthew ? at ?. The awesome power of these weapons is outlined in 2 Corinthians 10:17- at
Gary Patton

Who Loved Who First? - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • But God (A)demonstrates (B)His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, (C)Christ died for us.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Never forget that God picked us to spend eternity with Him now and in the life after this one as it says in Romans 8: 29-30 at http://diigo.com/0lc07. He loves us more than we can ever understand in this life. Incredibly, your heavenly Father did so while we were still sinners and hated Him as it says here and elsewhere in the Bible. Don't let anyone try to convince you of the lie that you have to seek God before He will save you. The only thing you need to do is outlined simply in Romans 10:9-10 at http://diigo.com/0lk6j . gfp (2012-01-24)
  • Romans 5:7-9
    • Gary Patton
       
      This is a companion promise to that in 1 John 4:19 at http://diigo.com/0mph0 that clearly states that the only reason we humans can love anyone, including God.
Gary Patton

Warnings About False Teachers - Bible Gateway - 0 views

  • revile [i]angelic majesties
  • To (C)those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and (D)kept for Jesus Christ:
  • I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you (I)contend earnestly for (J)the faith which was once for all (K)handed down to (L)the [c]saints. 4 For certain persons have (M)crept in unnoticed,
  • ...5 more annotations...
  • Woe to them! For they have gone (AJ)the way of Cain, and for pay [k]they have rushed headlong into (AK)the error of Balaam, and (AL)perished in the rebellion of Korah.
  • These are (AY)grumblers
  • But you, (BC)beloved, (BD)ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by (BE)the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “(BF)In the last time there will be mockers, (BG)following after their own ungodly lusts.”
  • Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to (BQ)make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with (BR)great joy,
  • Jude 1
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    Jude's teachings are important to all Jesus Followers and those who are yet to believe in Him but have an open, inquiring mind.
Gary Patton

A Comprehensive Look at Genesis 3 | The Bare Times - 0 views

  • In verse 21, God mercifully provides coats of skin for Adam and Eve. People view the slaughtering of the animal as God’s start of the sacrificial system for ancient Israel because something died to cover their sin.
    • Gary Patton
       
      One is wise to note that God did so only AFTER Adam and Eve had gone into the clothing business and covered their so-called "private parts". God did not design man to wear clothes except as protection which is why He may have replaced the foliage with the more sturdy animal skins as He sent them into the "cold cruel" world! The sacrifice of the animals to cover the sins, not the bodies, of human kind also presages the ultimate and future sacrifice of Yesus (Jesus) for the sins and sin of those whom would trust in Him and it in the "fullness of time".
  • after the fall, Adam saw his body as shameful; even while God did not say the body was evil after the fall.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Satan cons modern Christians, I believe, with diabolically-generated shame to believe the opposite untruth i.e. public nudity is shameful and unBiblical. Could not Adam's reference in Genesis to his shame have been about his disobedience rather than about his being naked? Old Testament ceremonial washings, including baptism, were performed in the nude. [Note 1 - Please don't hestitate to contact me if you would like the details for the source of this or any of the other historical facts included below. I'm a trained historian and also like to see the documentation for so-called facts that are not commonly accepted.] Christ, too, was probably baptized naked, as depicted in numerous early works of art. [2] Early Christians bathed communally in the nude at the public baths or public places during most of the second through the fourth centuries. This was common practise in Rome for hundreds of years at all levels of society. Public nudity was also common during this period in other parts of ancient Roman society. The writings of early Christians such as Irenaeus and Tertullian make it clear that they had no ethical reservations about communal nudity for Christians. [3] Christian historian Roy Bowen Ward confirms based on his research that "Christian Morality did not originally preclude nudity. . . . There is a tendency to read history backward and assume that early Christians thought the same way mainstream Christians do today. We attribute the present to the past." [4] For the first several centuries of Christianity, it was the intentional custom to baptize men, women, and children together nude. This ritual played a very significant role in the early church. The accounts are numerous and detailed. [5] Margaret Miles, a historian and author, notes that "Naked baptism was observed as one of the two essential elements in Christian initiation, along with the invocation of the Trinity. . . . In the fourth century, instructions for baptism throughout the Roman Emp
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    This article outlines what the anonymous but Biblically astute author feels God says about nakedness at the time of creation.
Gary Patton

Rick Warren's Tower of Babel - 0 views

    • Gary Patton
       
      How the so-called "America's pastor" could feel that Christians and Muslims believe in the same God and promote peace simply illustrates the power of politically-correct denial operating in North American including within the traditional church.  That a high-profile U.S. Christian could be so misled by Muslim "taqiyya" ("liefare") would be scary except Jesus warned us to beware of false teachers and our God IS in control. gfp (2012-03-01)
    • Gary Patton
       
      Allah or Allāh is the Arabic word for the so-called One God of Islam. Because Christians and Muslims say the each worship One God is not the same as saying we worship the "same God". He is not YHWH of the Hebrew Pentateuch (Jewish Torah / Muslim al-Tawrāt), nor of the Jews' larger Bible, nor the "God" of the Christian Bible.   A Jesus Follower or Jew who actually reads the Qur'an, the chief Islamic Holy book will quickly discern that Allah is not the Judeo-Christian Almighty God because: * he is not a god with whom one can have a personal relationship as Our's is. * he is fickle and judgemental as Our's is not, and * he allows devout Muslims into his paradise only on the basis of their individual "good works" including murderous jihad e.g., Surah:Ayat 3:97-1040 while Our's requires only faith in His grace as it says at http://diigo.com/0n20e . And these are only three key traits that distinguish the Muslim deity, Allah, from the God of Jews and Christians. To argue, that he is is a lie from the pit of Hell. And please don't be fooled by some Muslim or Christian "false teacher" telling you that the name Allah was used by Christians in some cultural groups hundreds of years before Muhammad came on the scene. That may be true, but, the issue is: "Is Allah a Christian's Almighty God. 
    • Gary Patton
       
      The few loving, peaceable and early Qur'anic passages e.g., 2:256, 50:45 & 109:1-6 were laid down when Muhammad was at Mecca and weak. The latter hateful, violent ones e.g. (Qur'an 4.76, 9:5-6, 9:29, & 60:4) were "received" when he was strong and expanding later. The Islamic "Principle of Abrogation is supported by EVERY Islamic "School of Jurisprudence". It states that later, seemingly contradictory verses abrogate and replace earlier ones because in Qur'an 2:106, Allah specifies:      "Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We {Allah} abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?"
  • ...1 more annotation...
    • Gary Patton
       
      One could wonder if Mr. Warren is using the Islamic principle of "taqiyya" in denying proven facts. a-Taqiyya is the Arabic word for intentional lying and dissimilitude to advance the cause of Islam. I call it "liefare". It is approved by both Muslim Holy Books, the Qur'an and the a-Hadith. One or more of Qur'an 2:173, 2:185, 4:29, 16:106, 22:78, 40:28, are the verses usually cited by Muslim Imams, Mullahs and all Islamic "Schools of Jurisprudence" as justifying taqiyya. 
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    How the so-called "America's pastor" could feel that Christians and Muslims believe in the same God and promote peace simply illustrates the power of politically-correct denial operating in North American including within the traditional church. That a high-profile U.S. Christian could be so misled by Muslim "taqiyya" ("liefare") would be scary except Jesus warned us to beware of false teachers and our God IS in control. gfp (2012-03-01)
Gary Patton

Red Letter Christians » The Power of Being a Partial Bible Christian! - 0 views

  • the whole history of the church was changed. It was – as usual – not the whole 775,693 words of the whole bible, but the intensity of the few words in specific passages that had the power.
    • Gary Patton
       
      I believe God will attach varying levels of "power" for different people at different times to different passages of Scripture because He is a God who deals with each one of His creations UNIQUELY. Yes, "all Scripture is inspired". But, to be a "PBC" for a moment (Partial Bible Christian), I'll remind you that Scripture also says in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that the wo(man) who is not inspired by Holy Spirit cannot accept what he writes in His "good news" whatever version s(he) uses!
  • The activists, the evangelicals, the Pentecostals, and yes, the conservatives and the liberals, can drive us nuts. They are forever telling us that THEY have the truth. And they can make us feel like second-class citizens sometimes, when we do not go along with everything they say. They make me long for “Whole Bible Christians” who leave me alone. But, my friends, it is the folks whose lives are renewed, defined and driven by their favorite verses and passages who are the ones who bring life to the church, who model for us what it means to take discipleship seriously, who make history.
  • we are focused with laser intensity in the words Jesus spoke. Those words are the text for the sermon we call our lives. We find power in those words. We find direction. We find purpose. We find life itself.  In that sense we dare to stand with the great company of “Partial Bible Christians” who have served the Lord faithfully across the centuries.
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    Yes, all scripture is "God-breathed" or "inspired". But not all 31,373 verses carry the same weight for our faith in Yeshua/Jesus. gfp (2012-03-01
Gary Patton

The Only Way, NOT One Way, to Be Reconciled with Almighty God - BibleGateway.com - 1 views

  • John 14:6
  • “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    • Gary Patton
       
      Some find Jesus' statement here, in John 14:6, to be 'exclusionary'. They maintain He was only a good and wise man but not God, in the flesh as the Bible maintains He actually said. Many feel that following Jesus is ONLY one way to get back to our heavenly Father. You and you alone will and must decide for yourself Who Jesus is. You have ONLY three choices, I suggest: 1. Jesus was a mad man for saying this! 2. Jesus was a lying when He said this! 3. Jesus is God almighty and came as 'Emmanuel' (almighty God in flesh and bones), lived a sinless life, was crucified, died and was resurrected from the grave as payment in full for the penalty required for your "sin nature" as well as your sins. When you believe and act on this truth, you will live forever with God from the moment you cry out to Him plus live an abundant life in the "hear and now" as well as in the "hereafter".
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    http://diigo.com/0qe5p "The Only Way, NOT One Way, to Be Reconciled with Almighty God" In John 14:6, Jesus make a statement that dramatically affects your future. He says VERY bluntly in the Christian Scripture below that He is the ONLY way to God! GaryFPatton (gfp '42™ 2011-09-08)
Gary Patton

Q: What are the different names of God and what do they mean? - 2 views

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    great list and great find.
Gary Patton

"The Bible Commands Care-fronting & Holding Others in The Body Accountable"Ephesians 5:... - 1 views

  • Ephesians 5:11-14
    • Gary Patton
       
      "The Bible Commands Carefronting & Holding Others in The Body Accountable" at https://diigo.com/0zyty Ephesians 4:11-14 is a command many Christians ignore plus confronting-adverse ones abhor. Peace & love in The King, GaryFPatton (2013-07-01)
  • Don’t get involved with the fruitless works of darkness; instead, expose them to the light of God.
    • Gary Patton
       
      This command is to be applied, I believe, ONLY against those who say they are Christians. I do because the greater context of these few verses seems clearly to be referring to believers behaving contrary to the word of God. Also, there are many other Scritures which command us NOT to judge those outside the Body of The King. For example, you'll discover that people who do not follow Jesus may NOT be judged ...no matter how offensive or sinful their behaviour... in 1 Corinthians 6:9-13.
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    "The Bible Commands Carefronting & Holding Others in The Body Accountable" It,s a command many Christians ignore and confronting-adverse ones abhor. GaryFPatton (2013-07-01)
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