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Gary Patton

The Sin Nature ...Do Jesus Followers Have One? by Dr. Bill Gillham - 0 views

www.christianforums.com/t22382-3

sin nature Mr. Sin christianity dead religion Gillham scripture interpretation romans galatians

shared by Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11 - No Cached
  • We are known as “humans.” Jesus was a human without a sin nature in that He was never descended from Adam. The Holy Spirit furnished the 23 male chromosomes which united with Mary’s 23 to enable Jesus Christ to leave heaven and take on the form of human male.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      One cou;d argue that this implies that our first parent's sinful, human nature is transmitted ONLY through males. Does mr. Gillam really mean that? gfp
  • It is the sin nature that condemns a man to hell, not his sinful performance.
  • The whole ballgame for all of eternity is spiritual, not physical… the bottom line is spirit!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is why Jesus said we can woship God ONLY in spirit and in truth" (John 4:22-24)!
  • ...44 more annotations...
  • The Bible speaks of only two types of spirit-natures referring to them as “men.” They are the “old man” and the “new man.”
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Modern Bible translated have changed the literal translation of the King James Version of "man" to "self" and noted the original word in a footnote.
  • the Bible speaks of the old man being able, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, to be born in a new way in order to change his identity (Jn. 3). Through turning from his self-centered rebellion, submitting himself to Christ’s authority as the God He is, appropriating His provision for getting shed of his dead spirit and beginning all over again with a new, good, alive, godly spirit, man can become something he has never been…alive to God through Christ (Rom.6:13). This new man is now a son of God via faith in Christ (Jn. 1:12).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is why the Bible says only Jesus Followers are "children of God" and not all people. The latter are His "creation". But, non-Followers are not his children until they are put to death, spiritually, with Jesus and, then, resurrected or "re-born", as Jesus told the Pharisee in John 3:3-5, by Holy Spirit. gfp
  • We are cut from the same spirit-genetic cloth as our Lovely Lord Jesus! God reveals no provision in His word for adding His Spirit to a spirit-son of the devil You cannot mix Light with darkness.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Don't misunderstand what Mr. Gillham is saying in the second sentence here. All human beings are "sons of the Devil" until re-born in and by Jesus (John 8:42-45) as Mr. Gillham shares above in this article. gfp
  • A great problem exists today in that many well-meaning Christians teach that the death of the old man is simply a “positional truth”; it’s the “position in which God sees us.” They speak of it as if it were something we have to “reckon on” (count it as true) to keep it true.
  • we do not have to reckon on it to derive any benefit from it
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 22 Dec 11
       
      This sentence contains a typo that confuses its sence. I believe that Dr. Gillam intended to write: "...we DO have to reckon on it..." because that is what Romans 6:11 says!
  • In God’s ecology, in order for a man to cease to be the son of Satan and become a son of God, the man must first die (spiritually) and then be reborn (spiritually), this time to a NEW FATHER! This is portrayed clearly in Romans 7:1-4.
  • The only kind of sons either God or Satan have are spirit-sons,
  • the flesh (body, brain, memory traces (flesh) in the brain
  • The reason a Christian doesn’t have a sin nature is because he is no longer the spirit-genes of God, his (New) Father! Hallelujah! Shout for joy! Whoooooeeeee!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 22 Dec 11
       
      This sentence also includes a typo that confuses its sense. I believe it should be read, and Dr. Gillham intended to write: "The reason a Christian doesn't have a sin nature is because he has no longer the spirit-genes of Satan but has those of God, his (New) Father!"
  • you are NOW a holy (Eph. 1:4), righteous (2 Cor. 5:21), saint of God (Rom. 1:7), blameless (Eph. 1:4), with Christ as your very Life (Col. 3:4), a son of God (Jn. 1:12), housed in an earthsuit (2 Cor. 5:1-8), a citizen of heaven (Eph. 2:19), on foreign assignment as an ambassador representing the “Fatherland” (2 Cor. 5:20), a righteous son of the King (2 Cor. 5:21), a spirit-son of the Second Adam (1 Cor. 11:45), spawned from His Spirit gene pool (Rom. 8:9), filled up with Christ Himself (Eph. 3:19), will all your needs (not greeds) supplied (Phil. 4:19), blessed with every spiritual blessing in heaven (Eph. 1:3), impervious to the obstacles of this planet (Phil.4:13), taking all things in stride as a part of the Loving Father’s “obstacle course” designed to prepare us for eternal rulership (Rom. 8:28-29)!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is an incredible list of Biblical truths that flow from our being born-again in Messiah!
  • It’s not my old self that I am fighting against inside! It’s the power of sin working on my (new) mind (Rom. 7:23) through the flesh (the old memory traces) that I battle, and we are dead to having to submit, brother! (Rom. 6:11)
  • Accept this by faith as your true identity! Set your mind on it! Dwell on it! Meditate on the truth of it! Then, moment by moment act like it is true!
  • Can a man possibly possess dual spiritual sonship? No?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is an incredible freedom-granting truth and a major benefit of being born-again children of God!
  • Stop acting like who you are not! That’s hypocritical! Act like the new man you are by faith! That’s obedience!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Our "New Man/Creation" is truly astounding. In life or death situations, human beings can lift cars. Just think for a moment of the limitless capabilities we have as New Creations in Jesus. We are flowing and operating in the power our Inner Warrior when we "abide/rest in" Jesus (John 15:5) and "live His Spirit" (Galatians 5:15).
  • But after the one’s “birth” as the new king, the old king could never again resurrect himself because he had no capability for self-resurrection! The very existence of the one precludes the existence of the other and vice versa!
  • was thoroughly confused
  • he was talking about two different people
  • “The King is Dead! Long Live the King!”
  • The old man has indeed died (Romans 6:6, etc.) and the new man has indeed been generated by the Holy Spirit (Colossians 3:10, etc.). But, unfortunately, the pervasive position taken by most Christian leader is that the old man is till “alive and well’ within the believer…that sinful performance gives daily testimony to this as “fact.”
  • The two can’t coexist any more that the two kings can! It was the death of the old man, which enabled the new man to be born! It is impossible for the new man to exist until the old man has died and the old man cannot resurrect himself. There is but One Life Who has such resurrection power…the Life of Christ!
  • Can you see what a difference this makes in motivating a Christian as opposed to berating him by constantly telling him what a sorry, no-good sinner he is and how he is going to face an angry God some day? Folk, it’s our works which will be judged in the future, not our personhood (2 Cor. 5:10) and God is not mad at the saved. He took our all the anger He had against us on Jesus (Isa. 53). We’ll either be rewarded or we’ll lose what we potentially could have won, but “there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ” (Rom. 8:1).
  • Those cannot exist simultaneously.
  • peaks of the POWER OF INDWELLING IN (not the sin nature) working in man to produce undesirable (sinful) behavior. The power of sin simply deceives the Christian by masquerading as the old man, suggesting (deceiving) to the will that a choice be made to perform according to the old self-serving patterns programmed in previously. This is referred to as “walking after the flesh.”
  • masquerade in the thought life of the Christian posing as his unique version of the old man! The naïve Christian will believe he, himself, is generating the unchristian suggestion and thus direct his defensive efforts against the wrong foe…what he perceives to be a darker side of himself! He fires all his bullets at a shadow! This is the explanation for the frustration depicted in Romans 7:15 “…why do I do the very thing I hate? Why can I get no victory?”
  • Though it would appear that the “two-natures” view places the greater responsibility for poor performance squarely on the Christian and that the “one-nature” view is a cop out, the opposite is actually true!
  • So long as one embraces the former he is constantly deceived into believe his failure is just standard Christian experience. As Scofield said (paraphrased), “This is not standard Christian experience, it’s the standard experience of most Christians,” the tragic result of faulty discipling.
  • Once the Christian enters into identification with Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension, claiming he no longer has two natures, but is now “the righteousness of God in Christ” and “holy and blameless in His sight” he is without excuse when he sins, because he knows what it is to possess the Life (“Christ in me”) which overcomes on a moment-by-moment basis.
  • In reality, it is accepted as fact that Christians no longer have a sin nature that places one squarely on the hook and totally responsible to choose, moment-by-moment, against the wooings, deceptions and accusations of indwelling sin working through the flesh. “Always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus (moment-by-moment) in our body.” (2 Cor. 4:10—NAS)
  • Indwelling sin deceives the “two-natures” believer into rationalizing, “I’m just human. I just fail a lot and God understands it’s just my old sin nature that got the better of me.” This is the true cop out position!
  • Awake sleeper! The king is dead! Long live the King!
  • The power of sin is what its name implies, a power to entice you into sin. It dwells in you (Rom.7:21) yet it is not you any more than a gold tooth that dwells in your mouth is you. Sin’s goal is to deceive the saints into living to get their needs (though good and godly) met by sinning rather than by using the Matt. 6:33 method; that is, “seeking Christ first.”
  • The power of sin is not your sin nature. Your sin nature is a synonym for old man or old self. That “old you” was crucified in Christ (Rom. 6:6). Before you were saved, it was as normal for you old nature to rebel against God’s authority as it is for a fish to swim.
  • Yet the power of sin is alive and well in you, saint. It indwells your body (Rom. 7:23). On page 1055 of W.E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Vine states that sin is, “a governing principle or power” that is “personified” in the following passages. He then lists sixteen verses in which this holds true. The term personified means “represented as a person.” The power of sin can represent itself as a personage.
  • Since sin is personified, let’s call it “Mr. Sin” so we won’t confuse it with the verb. Mr. Sin tries to control you, to make you live to satisfy your bodily needs.
  • “For sin shall not be master over you…(Rom. 6:14). Mr. Sin (the personification) cannot master you. Remember how sin is “represented as a person?” It tries to master you through presenting thoughts to your mind by masquerading as the old man who has risen from the tomb. But no one except Jesus can do that, right? That’s not the old man; it’s the power of sin personified.
  • “But, if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but Mr. Sin which indwells me (is somehow doing it)” (Rom. 7:20). This verse can really be a puzzler if you interpret the word “sin” as a verb. But it’s a noun, and Vine says it is personified (represented as a person).
  • Mr. Sin the “personage,” wars, fights and seeks to control your mind. But your mind does not want to be controlled by this power, so it fights back.
  • Galatians 5:17 says that the “flesh lusts against the spirit” and vice versa and there is obviously a war going on inside of every Christian, but it’s not the old man versus the new man doing battle.
  • The Law is the source of Mr. Sin’s strength. To couple law with Mr. Sin is like pouring gas on a fire. This personage called sin needs a law to aid it if it is to optimally control you. It “eats, breathes and sleeps” via the Law.
  • “The Law is not made for a righteous man” (1 Tim. 1:9).
  • Why? Because you, the righteous man (2 Cor. 5:21), don’t need it. The lost man does (in order to show him his condition), but you don’t. You now “have the laws of God written on (your) heart and mind” (Heb. 10:16).
  • In this verse, sin is represented as a personage which can harden you through deception.
  • it was exciting to discover that a man of Vine’s stature as a scholar testifies that the power of sin is often personified in the Word. What liberty there is in knowing that the rebellious, evil, hateful thoughts I experience are being presented to my mind, not generated by it.
  • Is Our Sin Nature dead or NOT?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 25 Feb 12
       
      In the short articles below, Dr. Gillham demolishes the common teaching, often implies by preachers, that a Jesus Follower can have two natures ... a Satanic, sinful nature plus the righteous nature of God in Christ? This hypothesis" or opinion (http://is.gd/2tUCAb) is taught or implied by many in the church usually as truth. It also is implied by the New International Version (NIV) Bible's translating Biblical 'flesh' as "sin nature" ...wrongly as Dr. Gillham illustrates. Can a wo(man) really possess a dual spiritual sonship? You'll find freeing meditating on the clear Biblical answer presented here because Rev. Gillham says the answer is "NO! We don't have two natures!!" "Stop trying and start trusting God! It's not what you have to do that counts. But what Jesus has already fully done for you and the power He gives you because He lives in you!" ~ gfp '42™ gfp (2011-09)
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    In these 3 short articles, Dr. Gillham addresses teaching that a Jesus Follower can have two natures ... a Satanic, sinful nature plus the righteous nature of God in Christ? This hypothesis" or opinion is taught or implied by many in the church usually as truth. It also is implied by the New International Version (NIV) Bible's translating Biblical "flesh" as "sin nature". But, can a wo(man) really possess a dual spiritual sonship? The clear Biblical answer according to Bill Gillham is "NO!" "Stop trying ...and start trusting God, It's not what you do. But what Jesus has already fully done for you!" ~ gfp '42™ gfp (2011-09)
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    "Mr. Sin" is a more dangerous moment-to-moment foe for you than Satan. Pastor Gillham tells why! gfp
Gary Patton

The Root of Who a Jesus Follower is In Christ - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

romans sin-nature christian dead scripture interpretation Jesus Following

shared by Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11 - No Cached
  • baptized into His death
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      If you have Holy Spirit living in you, you're past tense dead! You are a brand, new "New Creation", not a patched up one or one with two natures ...despite what the NIV implies by its translation of "flesh" as "sinful nature" as outlined at by Dr. Bill Gillham at http://diigo.com/0j8w4 . The "Old You" (Old Man or Old Self) is dead and buried and a "New You" (Man/Self/Creation) is all that's left because of what Jesus has already done for you.
  • as Christ was (B)raised from the dead through the (C)glory of the Father
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      If you have Holy Spirit living in you, you're past tense dead! You are a brand, new "New Creation", not a patched up one or one with two natures ...despite what the NIV implies by its translation of "flesh" as "sinful nature" as outlined at by Dr. Bill Gillham. The "Old You" (Old Man or Old Self) is dead and buried and a "New You" (Man/Self/Creation) is all that's left because of what Jesus has already done for you.
  • walk in (D)newness of life
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This promise confirms the truth of our "New Life" as a Follower of Jesus as we let Him live His life out through us as it says in Galatians 2:20 at < http://is.gd/BYVePk >. gfp (2011-09-08)
  • ...4 more annotations...
  • body of sin might be [b]done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      In this verse, please go with the equally acceptable translation noted in (B) of "made powerless"! This makes clearer that "Mr. Sin" is finished and cannot resurrect himself as the flesh (what remains in your human nature after rebirth) continues to do in ALL Christians. You are clearly past tense dead to the power of "Mr. Sin" operating through your flesh to control your behaviour. You can read more about Mr. Sin in the short articles by Dr. Gillham at http://diigo.com/0j8w4 .
  • dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      How's this for a miracle .. you are a dead wo(man) and really alive for the first time. But only when you believe this truth. This verse makes even clearer that "Mr. Sin" is dead, powerless and cannot resurrect himself as can your flesh (what remains in your human nature after rebirth) continues to do in ALL Christians. You are clearly past tense dead to the power of "Mr. Sin". As I noted above, you can read more about Mr. Sin in the short articles by Dr. Gillham @ gfp (2011-09-08)
  • having been (A)freed from sin,
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      You do NOT have "two natures" Please believe it!. Then act on the truth you say you believe by keeping on keeping on abiding/resting/walking in Jesus, you dead wo(man) you!!!! Because when Jesus sets you FREE, you're free indeed as you're also promised at < http://diigo.com/0jiq6 > . gfp (2011-09-08)
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 24 Jan 12
       
      There are four other short verses attached below. Don't miss the e-Sticky Note comments on each of these.
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    Please note and prayerfully meditate on the powerful truth that the verbs in each of 5 crucial verses in Romans 6:3,4,6,11,18 are each past tense? Please also reflect on what that means for you having a REAL life of abundance and true freedom if you follow Jesus. If you do, the "Old You" (Old Man or Old Self) is dead and buried and a "New You" (Man/Self/Creation) is all that's left because of what Jesus has already done for you. You already are a brand New Creation, not a patched up one or one with two natures ...even f you don't always act of feel like one. Plus you're dead to the power of Mr. Sin operating through your flesh (sinful habit patterns that remain as part of your human, not sinful, nature) to control your behaviour. gfp
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    The Bible says you ARE a "Dead Wo(man) Walking". But, you may not know it. And that's holding your spiritual growth back! gfp
  • Gary Patton on 04 Dec 11
     
    Yes, you really are a Walking Dead Wo(man) when you are in Christ! And you're powerless if you don't believe and understand how and why God designed His children to be this kind of New Creation in Christ"! gfp
Gary Patton

The Battle Within Human Beings - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

Jesus freedom christ scripture

shared by Gary Patton on 04 Apr 12 - No Cached
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 04 Apr 12
       
      The "Fruit of the Spirit" is a package of powerful character traits that we receive when we are born-again as "New Creations" in Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:17). Jesus Himself is this package because He is living His life our through us from inside us as He promises. This package, which is Jesus' power in us, is described in Galatians 5:22-25 at http://diigo.com/0m0c1 .
  • Galatians 5:16-21
  • Galatians 5:16-21
  • Gary Patton on 04 Apr 12
     
    In Galatians 5:16-21 (NASB), the Apostle Paul describes the war between the power of "Mr. Sin" via our Flesh, in Satan, and that of Holy Spirit, in Christ, that wages constantly within the body of a Follower of Jesus. We've read the last Chapter of the Book though. Our "Warrior Within", Jesus, wins on our behalf!!
Gary Patton

What Neuroscience Tells Us about Spritual Disciplines | Christianity Today - 0 views

www.christianitytoday.com/...science-lent-fasting.html

brain christianity disciplines neuroscience

shared by Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12 - No Cached
  • Neuroscience sheds light on how fasting and other spiritual disciplines work by training our subconscious mental processes.
  • our conscious self is far less in control over who you are and what you do than you realize. &nbsp;"We are not the ones driving the boat of our behavior," says neuroscientist David Eagleman.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12
       
      I wonder, assuming this is true, might what psycology calls our subconscious be the residence of Christian flesh. However, I believe the existence of a 'subconscious' is, like 'evolution', a thesis that is usually stated as a fact and truth but no one can prove. Neither is a scientific theory and are certainly not proven theorems because they are not replicable through experimentation.
  • Jesus expected that dietary restriction would be a part of our spiritual practice. "When you fast," he said, not if.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      There is no command that we fast in either the Old or New Covenant that I can find. Verse 16 for me is a suggestion not a command. If I'm correct, why do Christian pulpiteers and writers talk about Jesus' quote here like, as this writer says, it should be taken as "an assumption" that Jesus Followers for all time should fast? Why not just consider it what it was? In context, I suggest that Jesus was teaching about an appropriate attitude to take in our relationship with God and our worship of Him. To do so, Jesus used illustrations about how to fast a worship activity practised by the Jews of his day and Old Covenant characters with whom they were familiar. His illustrations were made to a group of religious Jews when He was teaching them on a hillside by using inappropriate fasting practises which some of them followed that He and everyone else present probably observed regularly. Likewise, because Holy Spirit "drove" Jesus into the wilderness without food or water for 40 days for reasons unique to Jesus' ministry, why is it often taught that we must imitate that one time happening, as far as we know, in our Masters life? Undoubtedly, fasting can be healthy for some when properly practised. It may also have positive spiritual implications when done for reasons God leads the faster about. But, much of the super-spiritual things taught about fasting for spiritual reasons do not seem to have any real Biblical support. It is Holy Spirit Who "shapes us into spiritual people" using his lovingly slow process of sanctification ...as it says in Romans 8:29-30 at http://diigo.com/0lc07 ... not our disciplined, hard work by depriving ourselves to train our subconscious as Rob Mol says in this article. Undoubtedly, fasting can be healthy for some when properly practised. It may also have positive spiritual implications when done for reasons God leads the faster about. But, much of the super-spiritual things taught about fasting for spiritual reasons do not seem to ha
  • ...5 more annotations...
  • Don't fast for a cause, but to shape your soul.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 07 Apr 12
       
      Mr. Moll explains in this article the light that neuroscience, he says, sheds on how fasting and other so-called, "spiritual disciplines" work. He says our socalled "Christian disciplines" train our subconscious mental processes. I wonder if what he says makes sense because his opinions are based solely on a number of unproveable theories which he shares like they were facts without any qualification. I've added below some e-Sticky Notes about what I think. How do you feel about what I have written? gfp (2012-03-30)
  • by making the Lenten discipline of fasting about a cause, we are caving in to our cultural distaste for self-denial.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12
       
      Amen!
  • But more importantly, spiritual disciplines shape us in deep ways. Because our brains—at the very least—mediate, process, and experience our spiritual lives, the disciplines can train us to become more attuned to God himself.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12
       
      This is a statement with significant spiritual implications for which Mr. Mol offers absolutely no scientfic proof or Bisbilical support. Therefore, I suggest the statement is potentially dangerous because it promotes our works rather than "rest" in God as the Bible clearly does command in Hebrews 4.
  • when our blood sugar runs low, chemical signals from the blood stream reach the brain, which sends out signals to eat.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12
       
      This process and that described below are hard-wired into our DNA by God to protect us ...not the result of our pratcising disciples!
  • The subconscious brain is at work, guiding our actions and our behavior
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 30 Mar 12
       
      As a charismatic Follower of Jess, I would suggest that the results Mr. Moll is describing here can be just as acceptably ascribed to God working in His Followers' spirit because He lives in us ...rather than to some unprovable thesis stated like fact about a 'subconscious' developed by worldly psychology. The subconscious is not science because the concept is not replicable nor is it provable. Jesus Followers, on the other hand however, know that they know that they know that God leads them. We do because of the always beneficial result when we do what Holy Spirit leads.
Gary Patton

Interpreting Scripture: Our Greek-ness is Showing - 0 views

catchthewindministries.blogspot.com/...-scripture-our-greek-ness.html

bible bibliolatry scripture interpretation

shared by Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11 - No Cached
  • All of us who have been raised and/or educated in a western culture…regardless of our ethnicity or heritage…think like Greeks. And this can cause us some problems when we attempt to interpret the Bible.Because God is not a Greek.
  • Among other things, we Greeks believe that there is only one correct way to interpret any particular scripture and apply it to our lives
  • hen interpret biblical truth through our own personal religious, cultural, societal, and experiential lenses
  • ...7 more annotations...
  • When a verse or passage in the Bible lends itself to more than one interpretation, we Greeks seem unable to consider the possibility that both interpretations might be equally valid.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
       
      Actually, this tension is not really a "big deal" because the simple English word, 'antinomy' explains the Biblical concept of "equal and opposing truths"! Might it be that christains simply like to fight? In discussing contrary points-of-view on a 'proof-text', for example, do we allow Mr. Sin to rear up our flesh like a wild, untamed stallion ...rather than the Indian warrior pony in North American terms... to which Jesus was referring via the 'Greek' word He used when commanding us to be 'meek'. (Forgive me David, I don't speak Aramaic, either! :-)) gfp
  • That’s how we get more than 20,000 versions of the same truth.
  • I’m not convinced Jesus had any interpretation in mind when He spoke these words. He always did what He saw the Father doing, and He always spoke what He heard the Father speaking. I don’t know that Jesus needed much explanation or clarification before revealing the works and words of the Father.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
       
      And prior to going to His cross and being resurrected, Jesus, the incarnate "God Man", would have had to later think through what the Father gave him. Maybe He even talked through optional interpretations with "His boys"? Might He even have argued with Himself over them? (I hear that muttered "God forbid", Dr. Dave! :-)) gfp
  • I have been awestruck by the preciousness of Jesus and determined to obtain an intimate relationship with Him regardless of the cost because He is the only One who is worth what I will pay for Him. And I have been brought to tears to know that He loves, cherishes, and values me so much that He would pay the ultimate price to invite me into the relationship that He and the Father &amp; the Spirit have enjoyed from eternity past.
  • Or we can put aside our Greek-ness and give up on the idea of objective truth defined as a body of information and correct interpretation. How about we simply adopt the Bible’s definition of objective truth?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
       
      I can suspect the horror this suggestion is generating in the flesh of "anti-grace-teaching" Pastors and the religious spawn they have misled! gfp
  • how about we let the Author of the scriptures quicken them to our hearts so that we see them in whatever light He wishes for us to see them at that particular moment?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
       
      WoW! What a novel idea!! Here again, this will be fleshly fear-inducing for religous people and their mistaken and misleading mentors. (And Dr. Dave knows that and does it intentionally, eh David! :-)) gfp
  • Only a Greek would ask such questions.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
       
      Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Gary Patton on 28 Nov 11
     
    Dr. David Ryser, my Friend and a Greek and Hebrew scholar and teacher points out some core challenge of Scripture interpretation. The challenge applies cross-culturally and to followers of different gods ...with some adaptation to your culture and faith for non-Jesus Following religious people. All of us who have been raised and/or educated in a western culture…regardless of our ethnicity or heritage…think like Greeks. And this can cause us some problems when we attempt to interpret the Bible ...because God is not a Greek. gfp (2011-11-18)
Gary Patton

Christians Don't Need to Fear Anything - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

corinthians trials temptation dis-stress fear F-E-A-R stress Mr. Flesh Mr. Sin scripture interpretation MSG

shared by Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11 - No Cached
  • All you need to remember is that God will never let you down
  • The Message
  • test or temptation
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    I Corinthians 10:13 (MSG Paraphrase) explains exactly why Jesus Followers can defeat the F-E-A-R that trails, tribulations and temptations bring. And when you're not experiencing a dangerous emotional, phyisical or spiritual threat, F-E-A-R usually means False-Evidence-Appearing-Real! When you do experience F-E-A-R, you are promised in this Scripture verse that you CAN defeat it by means of another F-E-A-R ...in Christ (Face-Everything-And-Recover, in Him). gfp (2011-09-17)
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    Why being fearful is a waste of time! gfp
Gary Patton

Reinterpreting the Great Commission - 0 views

www.boundless.org/...a0001678.cfm

bible scripture interpretation scripture evangelism great commission Jesus matthew mark luke john

shared by Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12 - Cached
  • Missional Discipleship: Reinterpreting the Great Commission
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      Jonathan Dodson adds exciting new dimensions to the standard interpretations of Jesus' "Great Commission" in the article. It is the first of two parts. gfp (2012-03-03)
  • In evangelical subculture the ubiquity of the Great Commission is matched by the poverty of its interpretation.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      The only greater "poverty" is its lack of application in their lives by so-called Christians. In North America, a too-common and oft-heard phrase exchanged between so-called Christians is: "I'd din't know you were a Christian!" "Lord, please forgive us although we know what we're doing! gfp"
  • The OT commission, frequently referred to as the creation or cultural mandate, was issued by God before the Fall of humanity, emphasizing creative activity with the following verbs: be fruitful, multiply, rule, and subdue (Gen 1.27-28).2 By producing more creators who rule and subdue the elements of the earth,
  • ...30 more annotations...
  • A surface reading of these Old and New Testament texts places them at odds with one another.
  • These impoverished readings call for reinterpretation, one that that allows both Genesis and the Gospels to speak.
  • we will be challenged to understand and embrace discipleship as more that "spiritual disciplines" or an evangelistic program.
  • following after Jesus that requires redemptive engagement not just with souls but with creation and culture.
  • the command is to make disciples of all nations not from all nations.
  • The Great Commission is not about soul-extraction, to remove the disciple from his culture,
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      To often in the past ...and still..., so-called Christian Missionaries who "went" and "go" into other cultures try to shape their disciples in the image of the Missionary's culture, i.e. they "clothed the naked", literally, instead of providing what's need in the moment by the individuals they encounter which is what Jesus meant. 
  • the many-splendored new humanity of Christ.
  • Where Matthew emphasizes the action of making distinctive disciples, Mark stresses the importance of preaching to all creation.
  • When Jesus used the word "preach" he did not mean converse. The Greek word for preach always carries a sense of urgency and gravity, as though what is to be proclaimed is of great importance
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      A better translation of the Greek, that captures it's sense and is not intentionally designed by the translator to reinforce "Sunday morning church activity", is "herald"! 
  • Paul perceives himself as an announcer of a worldly Christ-centered gospel,
  • While this worldly gospel saves, it also condemns.
  • For some it brings life; for others it brings death, but all are to be given the opportunity to be written into the story of God's redemption of all creation.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      This is not a particularly "Calvinistic statement, i.e., those saved are pre-ordained (Romans 8:28) but probably accurate because we'll never know 'till we get to heaven whether Holy Spirit used us to touch the "right" people and bring them "one step closer to Jesus". 
  • Humanity was charged with the task of caring for the earth and creating culture, making the uninhabitable habitable.
  • Jesus preached a worldly gospel, a restorative message that put the creation project back on track. His glorified, resurrection body is clearly proof of the new creation to come.
  • Jesus told those who believe that they will be given power to heal the sick, restore the demon-possessed, and to speak new languages (Mk. 16:17-18). This worldly gospel is for the redemption and renewal of the earth, the body, the heart, the mind, and the cultures of the world. It is a saving message that rescues people from their unbelief, not their world,
  • we are called to preach "repentance and forgiveness of sins." A social gospel will not suffice.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And a "social gospel" approach is also not excluded.
  • What does it mean to be "witnesses of all these things"? Well, at the very least it means sharing Jesus' self-sacrificing offer of forgiveness,
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And witnessing includes, I suggest, the practical and explanatory sharing of the blessings that have enriched the life of the witnesser as a result of their forgiveness and Jesus coming to live His life out through them by sharing what Christians call "their testimony". 
  • The problem with many of our stories is that they contain all spirit and very little flesh.
  • People want to touch redemption, which means they need to see resurrection power in our personal struggles.
  • The stories we tell should boast of Jesus' death and resurrection, of his forgiveness of sin and of his restoration of sinners — reconciled families and marriages, restored and housed homeless, renewed life among AIDS orphans, and so on.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And make sure these resurrection-power stories, if not about yourself, are about other you KNOW personally ...otherwise they can be considered so much fluff!
  • Whereas the previous gospel writers emphasized Jesus' command to make distinctive disciples, preach a worldly gospel, and witness a fleshly Jesus, John stresses Jesus sending his disciples.
  • According to John Piper, we are either goers, senders, or disobedient, but according to Jesus we are all the sent.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And I agree with Jesus. It's clear notwithstanding Mr. Piper's opinion, that Jesus clearly tells all his followers that we are to "go along", i.e., herald Jesus where He plants us". It's not wrong to help a Brother or Sister "go" somewhere else but Jesus never said or giving money to a so-called missionary could replace His Followers heralding Him where they are in the moment".
  • All followers of Jesus are called to live as missionaries in their culture
  • Our paradigm for living a sent life, a missionary life, is the sending of the Son by the Father.
  • So, within reason we should take on the trappings of our culture in order to contextually relate the gospel.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And for this reason, it's not wrong to accompany your work colleagues after work for a "drink" at a local strip club ...just don't oggle the strippers or get drunk! We can only earn their trust so they'll "as the reason for the hope that is in us (1 Peter 3:15-17) when we're not the typical judgemental Christian or pushy Televangelist-type they have been warned to avoid by those judged by those folks.
  • It leads us to immerse ourselves into the humanity of our neighborhoods and cities in order relate the gospel to people and their needs.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And this doesn't mean that we're more spiritual if we leave our middle-class lifestyle and neighbourhood and move into an inner-city slum or evangelize street people on weekends unless Holy Spirit makes clear that role is His will for you at that point in your life!
  • The power of missional living does not spring from cultural savvy or social sensitivity; it requires the otherworldly, utterly personal power of the Holy Spirit. Only the Spirit of God can make men new.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      Amen to that!! A Lone Ranger Christian carries a notch-less gun in his "heralding holster". 
  • The "good news" of Genesis 1-2 is that God created all things to be enjoyed, managed, cultivated, and recreated by humanity.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 03 Mar 12
       
      And applying 1 Corinthians 6:12 is the wise person's context for ALL her/his behaviour... not just the limited ones involving "food" and "sex" mentioned by Paul in the immediately surrounding verses of this passage.
  • This fruitful multiplication continues both physically and spiritually through the reproducing ministry of missional disciples, who increase in number and good works (Acts 6:7; Col. 1:6, 10). These good works include ruling and subduing creation through the careful, creative arrangement of the elements of the earth into art, technology, infrastructure etc. for the flourishing of humanity.
  • Retaining the cultural impulse of Genesis, the Gospels call us to a missional discipleship that entails creation care, cultural engagement, social action, and gospel proclamation. Missional disciples will not content themselves by preaching a culturally irrelevant, creation indifferent, resurrection neglecting message.
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