dvessel wrote in the sidebar: Actually, the "Clearing the theme cache" should be in this main page. The cache is always a hinderance for those that don't know how it behaves. It should be very visible. --- me - absolutely - I have the menu item from Devel module on every site's custom nav that shows up for any user role=admin, this (or an equivalently easy method) should be part of any "introduction to customizing a theme". Not with the background details about the registry etc, perhaps a "here's why" link to that information.

dvessel - I've proposed a convention for our using Diigo's many different types of "spoor" - Discussion threads in sticky notes, text-specific comments in highlights, as these show on the page without having to browse with the sidebar open. Bookmarks for tagging (because that's the only way to get tags; currently just tagging for D5/6 applicability), don't use Page Comments at all. What do you think of this idea?

The content here should allow me to at least have a chance of understanding the node that follows, or maybe intervening nodes need to be inserted, huge jump from this to the coding stuff that follows.

to D5-specific preprocess section

Great example of a "walk-through" with appropriate tone/level. The wizardly stuff could be below here (NOT buried), and the noob isn't scared away.

OK, summarizing - first impression from many was this is way-deep module-developer's stuff and it should be moved to the developer's guide, perhaps http://drupal.org/node/165706. dvessel and addi strongly differed, so we're leaving it here. However IMO the idea of preprocess functions needs to be introduced from a more-noob POV with relevant mainstream examples, with the more-advanced stuff moved to a clearly labeled section or sub-page. Plus the whole idea is D6-specific, except for Zen, right?

Past comments: Hans Move (most of this?) to the Developer's guide, relevant to creating modules, not end-user theming. Although there should be docs here on how to override using preprocess - applies to D5 using Zen and some others, otherwise just D6. Lee Yes, most of this, maybe all, should be moved. If we're leaving some of this here, there should be a clearer introductory sentence. Something like "If you are developing your own module, you can make it easy for others to theme your content." (I don't know if that's what this page is about, but something like that would allow someone like me to say "Ok this page is something I don't need to read") Shai +1. As evidence that this is the right move, there is a comment on that developer page asking, "Where is the documentation on preprocess functions?" -- and then another comment referring to this page. heather I think also the inclusion of Lee's suggested Intro sentence and help divert anyone off this page to save them some time- no matter where this page ends up. "If you are developing your own module, you can make it easy for others to theme your content." dvessel This is very specific to *theming* so it should stay in the theming handbook. Let's not dumb this down. It's a very important topic to grasp for themers. Addi Whoa, I agree with dvessel here. This is *theming* info that a themer needs to know if they want to implement in their template.php. The devs have their own guide from the module side already. Removing this from the theme guide would be a *horrible* decision. Yes, we can change the text to orient people more, but srsly, this *is* for themes, not modules.

dvessel - re dumbing it down - agree, but IMO the main "spine" needs to be accessible to people that are brand new users of Drupal, otherwise they won't even try to climb that steep learning curve and bail out of Drupal. We need to make the docs complete, but anyone who's capable of understanding this page as it stands now ain't finding his way by clicking through the nav hierarchy, she already knows google's site:drupal.org :)

From dvessel 's page-level comment (only visible from the sidebar - I reckon it's easier to see things all together in a sticky) Re: searching through google.. I don't buy it. It can be changed so it's more accessible but all the information should be there in full. I've seen many situations where someone has no clue as to where a piece of information comes from. It's the theming layer and they should be aware of the underlying function to solve their problems. Common question.. How do I change $primary_links? If they knew that "template_preprocess_page" pulls all the page template data then it would be easier to track down. So yeah, change the text so it's easier to understand but let's not remove it preventing others from learning.

Can we please standardize on floating sticky's except when commenting on specific text? If I have time, I'll summarize and start a new one when a threads gotten too long, but I can't actually delete it until everyone deleted their old posts (after they've been summarized)

@dvessel - sorry if I'm not being clear, no one's saying move it out anywhere, in fact we're bringing *everything* relating to a topic together as it hasn't been before. It's just that there should be intro/overview pages that are "parents" to the more advanced ones (eg talk about coding), which should help frame the topic for the non-coders, rather than them being thrown right into the deep end without a clue. The complex content will be right there e.g. intro "about pre-process functions", containing info as to how a noob could use them e.g. Zen theme's template.php. This would be a parent of: "details on pre-process functions" and "example pre-process snippets" and "module development and pre-process functions" and a series of step-by-step HowTos on pre-process functions and links to API docs, etc etc. Bringing it all together so it's easy to find via the navigation for everyone, setting the tone of the intro/overview nodes so they are accessible, give the noob a chance to get up to speed.

Great example here http://drupal.org/node/295346

http://drupal.org/node/201587 D5 specific to come here

NP devessel, we're all Diigo noobs, that's why we'll need to define practices as we go. I think these stickies work well, basically a topic thread, start a new one for a different topic or when the old one's got too long, summarizing the old one at the top of the new, along with decisions. D* versioning group tags coming soon.

Looked at it again, and still can't get my head around it. Needs re-working for different skill/experience level: 1 extract what's relevant for Joe noob tweaking Zen, without him having to learn how it actually works. 2 extract what's only relevant to developers. 3 teach Joe how to understand what's left, and sequence, insert flow/connecting transitions and references to other relevant nodes. e.g. what is a hook? how do you "implement a hook as a template", and what are the other ways to do it, differences?

"Changing the labels and the ordering of fields in content types created with the Content Creation Kit. For more information, see the CCK documentation." I would say that this is part of theming, maybe using color module too, but they're not to be included because they are topics specific to contrib-modules, which belong with the module's docs. We can of course link to them when appropriate, and I think CCK is so widely used these kinds of issues need to be at least mentioned as part of template.php/page/node template-specific pages. Also re Views, a lot of what people use Views for can be done through theming, so again, links when appropriate, enough information to inform them in making the choice.