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J. B.

God Is Still Holy and What You Learned in Sunday School Is Still True: A Review of "Lov... - 0 views

  • Bell asks a lot of questions (350 by one count), we should not write off the provocative theology as mere question-raising. Bell did not write an entire book because he was looking for some good resources on heaven and hell.
  • As Bell himself writes, “But this isn’t a book of questions. It’s a book of responses to these questions” (19).
  • Bad theology usually sneaks in under the guise of familiar language.
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  • Judgmentalism is not the same as making judgments. The same Jesus who said “do not judge” in Matthew 7:1 calls his opponents dogs and pigs in Matthew 7:6. Paul pronounces an anathema on those who preach a false gospel (Gal. 1:8). Disagreement among professing Christians is not a plague on the church. In fact, it is sometimes necessary.
  • This is a book for people like Bell, people who grew up in an evangelical environment and don’t want to leave it completely, but want to change it, grow up out of it, and transcend it. The emerging church is not an evangelistic strategy. It is the last rung for evangelicals falling off the ladder into liberalism or unbelief. Over and over, Bell refers to the “staggering number” of people just like him, people who can’t believe the message they used to believe, people who want nothing to do with traditional Christianity, people who don’t want to leave the faith but can’t live in the faith they once embraced.
  • Others—and they are in the worse position—will opt for liberalism, which has always seen itself as a halfway house between conservative orthodoxy and secular disbelief.
  • This is misguided, toxic, and ultimately subverts
    • J. B.
       
      Clearly Bell thinks this must be a very important issue. If Bell is right, then the vast majority of Christians throughout Christian history have been teaching a misguided, toxic, and subverting gospel.... in effect, it looks like we are teaching a different gospel altogether.
  • It’s a cheap view of the world because it’s a cheap view of God. It’s a shriveled imagination
  • This bold claim flies in the face of Richard Bauckham’s historical survey: Until the nineteenth century almost all Christian theologians taught the reality of eternal torment in hell. Here and there, outside the theological mainstream, were some who believed that the wicked would be finally annihilated. . . . Even fewer were the advocates of universal salvation, though these few included some major theologians of the early church. Eternal punishment was firmly asserted in official creeds and confessions of the churches. It must have seemed as indispensable a part of the universal Christian belief as the doctrines of the Trinity and the incarnation. (“Universalism: A Historical Survey,” Themelios 4.2 [September 1978]: 47–54)
  • Universalism has been around a long time. But so has every other heresy. Arius rejected the full deity of Christ and many people followed him. This hardly makes Arianism part of the wide, diverse stream of Christian orthodoxy. Every point of Christian doctrine has been contested, but some have been deemed heterodox. Universalism, traditionally, was considered one of those points. True, many recent liberal theologians have argued for versions of universalism—and this is where Bell stands, not in the center of the historic Christian tradition.
  • Universalism (though in a different form than Bell’s and for different reasons) has been present in the church since Origen, but it was never in the center of the tradition.
  • some of these are promises to God’s people, some are general promises about the nations coming to God, and others are about the universal acknowledgement (not to be equated with saving faith) on the last day that Jesus Christ is Lord. Not one of his texts supports his conclusion.
  • Even a cursory glance at John 14 shows that the through in verse 16 refers to faith. The chapter begins by saying, “Believe in God; believe also in me.” Verse seven talks about knowing the Father. Verse nine and ten explain that we see and know the Father by believing that Jesus is in the Father and the Father in him. Verses 11 and 12 touch on belief yet again. Coming to the Father through Christ means through faith in Christ. This is in keeping with the overall purpose of John’s gospel (John 20:31).
  • Bell cites Jesus’ words in John 3:17 that he “did not come to judge the world but to save it” (160). This Jesus, Bell says, is a “vast, expansive, generous mystery” leading us to conclude hopefully that “Heaven is, after all, full of surprises.” Bell’s lean into universalism here would be significantly muted had he gone on to Jesus’ words in verse 18: “Whoever believes in him [i.e., the Son] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” Likewise, according to John 3:36, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
  • The Greek word for “unite” is a long one: anakephalaiōsasthai. It means to sum up, to bring together to a main point, to gather together. It is like an author finishing the last chapter of his book or a conductor bringing the symphony from cacophony to harmony. It’s a glorious promise, already begun in some ways by the word of Christ.
  • The uniting of all things does not entail the salvation of all people. It means that everything in the universe, heaven and earth, the spiritual world and the physical world, will finally submit to the lordship of Christ, some in joyful worship of their beloved Savior and others in just punishment for their wretched treason. In the end, God wins.
  • If you don’t accept God’s story about the world and resist his love, heaven will be hell for you, a hell you create for yourself. We are supposed to see this in Luke 15 where both brothers are invited to the same feast but one can’t enjoy it. Heaven and hell at the same party (176).
  • The result is a simplistic formula: “God wants all people to be saved. God gets what he wants. Therefore, all people will eventually be saved.” This is a case of poor theologizing beholden to mistaken logic. If it is “the will of God” that Christians “abstain from sexual immorality” (1 Thess. 4:3), does that mean God’s greatness is diminished by our impurity?
  • If he’s right, most of church history has been wrong. If he’s wrong, a staggering number of people are hearing “peace, peace” where there is no peace.
  • Bell figures God won’t say “sorry, too late” to those in hell who are humble and broken for their sins. But where does the Bible teach the damned are truly humble or penitent? For that matter, where does the Bible talk about growing and maturing in the afterlife or getting a second chance after death? Why does the Bible make such a big deal about repenting “today” (Heb. 3:13), about being found blameless on the day of Christ (2 Pet. 3:14), about not neglecting such a great salvation (Heb. 2:3) if we have all sorts of time to figure things out in the next life? Why warn about not inheriting the kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9–10), about what a fearful thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God (Heb. 10:31), or about the vengeance of our coming King (2 Thess. 1:5–12) if hell is just what we make of heaven? Bell does nothing to answer these questions, or even ask them in the first place.
  • Some Jesuses should be rejected, Bell says, like the ones that are “anti-science” and “anti-gay” and use bullhorns on the street (8). But wherever we find “grace, peace, love, acceptance, healing, forgiveness” we’ve found the creative life source that we call Jesus (156, 159).
  • At the very heart of this controversy, and one of the reasons the blogosphere exploded over this book, is that we really do have two different Gods. The stakes are that high. If Bell is right, then historic orthodoxy is toxic and terrible. But if the traditional view of heaven and hell are right, Bell is blaspheming. I do not use the word lightly, just like Bell probably chose “toxic” quite deliberately. Both sides cannot be right. As much as some voices in evangelicalism will suggest that we should all get along and learn from each other and listen for the Spirit speaking in our midst, the fact is we have two irreconcilable views of God.
  • Bell’s god may be all love, but it is a love rooted in our modern Western sensibilities more than careful biblical reflection. It is a love that threatens to swallow up God’s glory and holiness. But, you may reply, the Bible says God is love (1 John 4:16). True, but if you want to weigh divine attributes by sentence construction, you have to mention God is spirit (John 4:24), God is light (1 John 1:5), and God is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:29). The verb “is” does not establish a priority of attributes. If anything, one might mention that the only thrice-repeated attribute is “holy, holy, holy.” And yet this is the one thing Bell’s god is not.
  • What’s missing is not only a full-orbed view of sins, but a deeper understanding of sin itself. In Bell’s telling of the story, there is no sense of the vertical dimension of our evil. Yes, Bell admits several times that we can resist or reject God’s love. But there’s never any discussion of the way we’ve offended God, no suggestion that ultimately all our failings are a failure to worship God as we should. God is not simply disappointed with our choices or angry for the way we judge others. He is angry at the way we judge him. He cannot stand to look upon our uncleanness. His nostrils flare at iniquity. He hates our ingratitude, our impurity, our God-complexes, our self-centeredness, our disobedience, our despising of his holy law. Only when we see God’s eye-covering holiness will we grasp the magnitude of our traitorous rebellion, and only then will we marvel at the incomprehensible love that purchased our deliverance on the cross.
  • The pain of hell is our fault. But it’s also God’s doing. Hell is not what we make for ourselves or gladly choose. It’s what a holy God justly gives to those who exchange the truth of God for a lie. The bowls of wrath in Revelation are poured out by God; they are not swum in by sinners. The ten plagues were sent by God, they were not the product of some Egyptian spell gone wrong. God’s wrath burns against the impenitent and unbelieving; they do not walk into the fire by themselves. Bell’s god is wholly passive toward sin. He hates some of it and says no to it in the next life, but he does not actively judge it. There’s no way to make sense of Nadab and Abihu or Perrez-Uzzah or Gehazi or Achan’s or Korah’s rebellion or the flood or the exodus or the Babylonian captivity or the preaching of John the Baptist or the visions of Revelation or the admonitions of Paul or the warnings of Hebrews or Calvary’s cross apart from a God who hates sin, judges sin, and pour out his wrath—sometimes now, always later—on the accursed things and peoples of this world.
  • Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:18, 36)?
  • Bad theology hurts real people.
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    A thorough critical review of Rob Bell's book "Love Wins" by Kevin Deyoung. MUST READ.
angelapardie

The significance of God taking the name Jesus in the Age of Grace - 0 views

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started by angelapardie on 08 Jul 18 no follow-up yet
michael bryan King

God's Love For You, Not Your Love For God - 0 views

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    Discover the truth about Love in the bible. And know how to live in love having the love of God for us.
IN Too

The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats: "Do I value others enough to put thei... - 0 views

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    Love is neither theoretical nor abstract. The lover pays a price to love the loved. Jesus gave His life and thereby proved His love for us. He didn't, and indeed couldn't, just stay in Heaven and wish us into salvation; a price had to be paid. We too must be willing to pay any price to love our brethren; because each person has value and that value is the Blood of Christ, for that is the price He paid for each man, each woman.
IN Too

True Love « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    Agape IS "I love you because you are you, because you are God's creation, made in His image… and that is sufficient for my love"Agape IS "I will be your friend… and my friendship is free. If there is any price to pay… I will pay it"Agape IS "God loving you through me"
J. B.

Do not Ask for whom the Bell tolls…… A Chapter by Chapter review of 'Love Win... - 0 views

  • in the Preface there is the disclaimer— ‘nothing in this book has not been claimed before within the parameters of the broad stream of historic orthodox Christianity’  (p. x).   As it turns out, and as we shall see, this is actually not quite accurate, if one is referring to creedal or confessional or conciliar orthodoxy.  If one means no more that some church father somewhere at sometime said something like this before, whether we deem him to be making an off-handed comment or not, then perhaps this claim can stand.
  • What is entirely missing from this chapter is any sort of discussion of sin, sin as the alienating cause of human lostness,  sin as the reason why persons are not going to heaven.  Let me be clear that I think Rom. 1.18-32 is crucial to this question.  Unfortunately Rom. 1 is not dealt with in this first chapter and what texts he does cite he does not treat in any detail.  Rather Rob sort of flits from one text to the next like a butterfly hoping to drain the tiny bit of nectar in each flower.
  • people are not condemned to hell or judgment for what they have never heard about God.   What Romans 1 says is that the reality of God and God’s power is evident in all of creation, and people are judged for what they do with the light about God that they have indeed received.  What Paul says they do is that while they know God exists and is powerful, they refuse to acknowledge God,  the most primal sin of all. In other words,  most of the questions Rob raises in Chapter One are entirely irrelevant.     People do not go to Hell (whether in a handbasket or by some other means of conveyance)  due to ignorance of God or of Christ. 
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  • Rob wants to suggest that a just or righteous or holy or judging God is somehow not good news. Tell that to the oppressed Christians in North Korea.   Tell that to the ordinary citizens of Libya longing to be set free from a wicked and brutal dictator.  Tell that to the Jews during the Holocaust in WWII.   In a sin-soaked world,  Good News involves both redemption and judgment, both vindication and liberation, both holiness and love.    The God of the Bible is holy love.  Not love without holiness which would fail to deal with the cancer called sin.  And not holiness without love, for if that was the way God related to us all— no one could stand.     The Good News of and about Jesus Christ, who will be the final judge of the world, is that justice, mercy and grace are all a part of this story.
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    The first of an eight part review of Rob Bell's book "Love Wins." By Ben Witherington III
Cody Lorance

Greater Love and Breaking Up - 0 views

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    They say that breaking up is hard to do. And it doesn't help when you are stinkin' coward. What's much harder is loving well. Would love for you to share your experiences with us all on this one.
IN Too

Swaddling Clothes: Gift-Wrapped Love « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    Just as a loving mother restricts her baby's motion to help it to rest more comfortably, let us allow God to swaddle us with His Word so that we might find true peace. And may God swaddle us with His Will so that we will love and serve our fellowmen, putting their needs ahead of our own.
IN Too

The Unconditional Love of God « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    The reality that God loves us unconditionally is often described in the Bible by one word: "MERCY".
IN Too

Walk Within the Love of The LORD « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    There are many, many things that we are taught from the time we are born; but to truly grasp the love that Christ has for us is by far the very most important.
angelapardie

The significance of God taking the name Almighty God in the Age of Kingdom - 0 views

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started by angelapardie on 09 Jul 18 no follow-up yet
angelapardie

Embarking on the Path of Belief in God | Eastern Lightning - 1 views

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started by angelapardie on 01 Jul 18 no follow-up yet
David Knapp

Jesus Loves Strippers - 0 views

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    Jesus love strippers but probably not the way you think. Find out how He loves them in this article.
IN Too

You Are Loved « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    You don't have to be on the A team. You don't have to be on the B team. You don't have to have made the team. You are loved.
IN Too

…and They'll Know We are Christians by Our Love « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    It is the love we share (by our actions, not just words!) that makes people believe we are sincere. It is how much we sacrifice for each other that opens the door for the gospel message. It is by bearing each other's burdens that we fulfill the Law of Christ.
IN Too

A Prayer for Perspective « Reflections in the WORD - 0 views

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    Heavenly Father, remind us each day that, of all the gifts you give us, the greatest gift is love… And help us to be slow to judge and quick to forgive, ready to share your patience, empathy and love.
alexis sullivan

Love - Associated Content - 0 views

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    This is a religious short story written by Alexis Sullivan. In this story God (called Love) has created Earth, watches our birth, is with us throughout our life, and holds us when our life ends and we reach heaven.
alexis sullivan

Love, What is Love? - Associated Content - 0 views

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    This is a romantic blog written by Alexis Sullivan. In this blog the author expresses confusion over what love is and what causes it.
J. B.

Euangelion: Love Wins 2 - 0 views

  • Have we somehow misunderstood or twisted the truth of what Jesus came to do? Well, this is a huge question that would require survey of Gospel accounts let alone a wide-ranging study of Gospel presentations today. Neither of which did Love Wins provide. So, it is certainly an overstatement.
  • many Christians sitting in our churches are secretly asking them, but afraid to raise them publicly.
  • I’d be shocked if we conducted a survey of people in our churches and not many of them were either pluralistic or universalists. There is the official teaching of the church and then there is what the Christians who sit in the pews believe. Often these are two very different things.
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  • Do you really mean to say that the central truth of Christianity is about getting out of hell and into heaven? Or, are you presenting this as Rob's view? If so, I'd have to disagree with you. Can you elaborate?
    • J. B.
       
      If we understand Hell as a place of separation from (right) relationship with God and a place of being subjected to the wrath of God, then isn't this at the very heart of the gospel? 
  • it is not accurate by any stretch to call orthodox a view that (1) tends toward universalism, (2) presents a “second-chance” theology, and (3) argues that nothing of what is central to the Gospel story is about “getting in”. This view can claim the label orthodoxy about as much as those found among the Gnostic Gospels. Sure there were so-called Christians used these texts and who thought of them as Christian Scripture, but they were on the very fringes of early Christianity representing only a very small minority.
  • Well we haven't defined heaven yet which is important in such a discussion, but yes I think a central aspect of Jesus teaching was getting into the soon coming kingdom which I equate with heaven.
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    The first (or second?) part of a review of Rob Bell's "Love Wins."
peter link

Songs of Love | Joyful Noise | Inspirational Music - 2 views

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    This month's offering is Songs Of Love--17 gorgeous songs covering many different aspects of this amazing word that drives our lives.
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