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One doesn't have to look at every Mall parking space before coming to the probable conclusion that their car has been stolen. Analogies aside, what search is being done here? Reading the bible? Waiting for a sign? One has a logical conclusion, the other has no viable end.

His unsupportable statement was... his opinion?

Logical Fallacy: Argument From Antiquity http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=15

What follows is a short list of historical people known for intelligence that were theists, or became so. A similar list could be compiled showing the reverse. Logical Fallacy: Aurgument From Authority http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=38

What follows is a short list of historical people known for intelligence that were theists, or became so. A similar list could be compiled showing the reverse. Logical Fallacy: Argument From Authority http://www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=38

Bigot: "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ." The implication is that all atheists are intolerant of theists. This cannot be supported. Some are however, just as some (if not many) theists are bigoted against atheists.

Excellent advice to participants on both sides of the issue.

However, don't lose your logical, respectful attitude should they prove to be every bit as firm in their position as you are in your belief - should you be the theist in such a meeting. Taking a position in the local minority is difficult to maintain with pressure from your peers to take the easier road without conflict and conform to the larger group. Those that maintain thier minority position despite such pressures usualy have strong reasons to do so, and are not easily moved. A true skeptical atheist is open to a change of mind - a vital and necessary act in science - but they will likely be of the opinion that exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.

That someone finds it difficult to understand only tells us that they have difficulty understanding. [Argument From Personal Incredulity]

This can be explained by the Anthropic Principal. If the air, water, and other resources - not to mention the universal constants that control the formation of stars, planets, etc - that we depend on were different, then we'd either be different to match and they would still be perfect for us, or we wouldn't be around at all to wonder why the universe is so harsh. It would be an impossibility for us to be here, as we are, thinking of this if the universe were not as it was. So the idea that the universe could be NOT suited to us is an impossibility. That an impossibility has not happened should not be that amazing to us.

Yesterday: BANG! Today: "all this" Yes, THAT would be rather unlikely. 14 billion years ago: BANG! (a whole lot of stuff explained by science) Today: "all this" A far more reasonable proposition, and one well supported by evidence, theory, and mathematics.

Ignoring for the moment the word "perfect" (the universe is far from perfect - I can think of quite a few improvements to make just off the top of my head), order CAN emerge from chaos. Dirt falls into a moving river, the light particles are swept away while the heavy particles sink to the bottom... Just as a sieve works, order - the separation of the heavy from the light - has come from purely chaotic systems. Given enough time to accumulate (14 billion years), complex ordered systems can arise from disorder.

The process of order emerging from disorder provides the recipe, though perhaps only one crumb at a time, taking a hundred years to make the cake. (This is, of course, a silly annalogy, since no one thinks a cake will be created by natural rules.) A better example would be water moving over the ground in a little rivulet. It tumbles along some portion of the dirt it passes over. In time, in forms a small channel in the soil. Increase the volume of water, give the system a lot of time in which to continue this tiny process, and you eventually end up with the Grand Canyon.

Though, you must admit, if a complete mess is what you were after in the first place, and not a cake, then the given procedure would work far better than applying the batter to the walls by hand. The separation of the heavy and light bits in a clod of dirt works much better when the clod falls into a moving stream than if it falls into lava. You CAN expect order to emerge from chaos, but not ANY order from ANY chaos. The firecracker + ingredients scenario is not a chaotic system that science would expect to produce a cake. But science does predict the formation of stars out the results of the Big Bang, and the production of heavy elements from the eventual death of those stars, and the clumping of those elements into new stars and planets, and the eventual evolution of life. Not every procedure works, but science can show us which do.

The references to the existence of Abraham Lincoln are copious to put it mildly. There are numerous sources of high quality that provide many forms of evidence that corroborate each other and few to none that raise any doubts about his existence. He also no longer exists in any form except this historical information. Furthermore, should his existence in the past turn out to be purely fictional (unlikely given the above quality and quantity of evidence), the change would have little to no effect on our lives today. The Christian's god's existence is supported by one book and an oral history. The book has more than a few self-inconsistencies and holds much that most Christian scholars count to be allegorical and not factual, and oral histories of such age have little to no evidential weight. (Ever play "Telephone"?) This god is said to still exist today and could, but doesn't, self-manifest. And every day thousands of people make choices based on their god's existence that they would not make otherwise, so the question of existence in this matter IS of some import. The two examples are, quite plainly, unrelated at every point.

This won't happen since given the proposition that a god does not exist, there will be no time after death where thought occurs to realize the fact. It is a fear of punishment after death due to one's non-belief that gives this view its strength. Without a belief in such an after-death state or belief in an inevitable punishment, one would have no fear. Also, several different and non-compatible religions include punishment for non-believers after their death. A person must select which is the correct one to be in fear of, since one can't be afraid of all of them at once. Once one has no fear of all but one after-death scenario, it is a small step indeed to be completely fearless instead.

One can believe this person or not.

To paraphrase: The evidence for the belief is the belief itself. To so many, this is enough. And that... is unfortunate.