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Gary Patton

Red Letter Christians » Following Francis: The Veneration of (Imperfect) Saints - 0 views

www.redletterchristians.org/veneration-of-imperfect-saints

Scripture saint lifestyle christian religion relationships

shared by Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12 - No Cached
  • why even bother trying to follow his example
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Jamie's is an interesting question. Initially, I reacted that the Bible tells me to only model Jesus. Then, I remembered Paul said: "Follow me as I follow Messiah".
  • “Don’t call me a saint.  I don’t want to be dismissed that easily.” 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Ms. Day's is a VERY interesting point. For me, it seems to be the opposite of that of too many Christians who don't realize that every Follower of Jesus is called a Saint by the Apostles in our Bible.
  • St. Francis of Assisi is a man who deserves to be honored and esteemed for his selfless devotion to Christ and the continued, positive influence his movement has had in building the kingdom of God. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Given these reasons for his suggested reverence of St. Francis, would Jamie also suggest we "revere" celebrities not singled out by the Catholic or Orthodox churches who have benefited human kind in a way not normally associated with "building the Kingdom of God", e.g. Albert Einstein, Bill Gates ...to name only a couple to make my point?
  • ...6 more annotations...
  • Some of those failings, he never acknowledged, but many he clearly repented for in his life.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Are we wise to repent in secret to Goad alone when our sin has affected one or more other people? Jesus Followers are commanded to forgive and to seek forgiveness of both God and man.
  • We venerate them as fallen, broken, thoroughly human individuals who, despite their mistakes, pursued obedience to Christ at any cost, thus changing their world (and ours) as a result. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Interestingly, this issue was a sub-plot in the 2012-02-10 episode of the TV police series, "Blue "Bloods". Frank is one of the stars and the Chief of Police of Boston is portrayed each week as an imperfect but moral, Catholic, family man. When Frank's archbishop comes asking for his support for the canonization of a local priest, Frank declined because the Priest had protested the Vietnam War. After checking into the matter further Frank changes his mind and supports the canonization for the reason suggested by Jamie here. The episode is available on line at my time of writing 2012-02-25.
  • They are deserving of our esteem because they refused to allow their own weaknesses to be used as excuses to live merely “good”, but ultimately mediocre lives. 
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      The potential eternal danger for a Jesus Follower in pursuing "better than good", as Jamie rightly implies we should here, is in whose strength we do it?  Jesus makes clear in John 15:5 that there is ONLY one way to produce a life of eternal value  (http://diigo.com/0jvfh).
  • The Veneration of (Imperfect) Saints
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      This article by Jamie Arpin-Rici suggests that all Jesus Followers are wise to venerate saints ...provided that they understand the meaning f veneration". gfp (2012-02-26)
  • followed Jesus in and through his own sinful nature,
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      Jamie is suggesting here that a Jesus Follower can have two natures ...a sinful one and also a Christ-like one.  However, Reverend Bill Gillham suggests in his powerful article ( http://diigo.com/0j8w4 ) that this is unBiblical ...although commonly taught in the Body of Christ by many.  This "Dual Natures Doctrine", as some call it, also is implied by the New International Version's (NIV's) translation of the Koine Greek word "flesh" as "sinful nature". I'd suggest that several verses in Romans 6 ( http://diigo.com/0jiqa ) seem to confirm that Rev. Gillham's position on this issue is the correct one.
  • I do not venerate Francis because Jesus is not enough.  I follow in the footsteps of Francis- human and flawed- because his steps so clearly follow those of Jesus Christ.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 26 Feb 12
       
      I say: Amen!
Gary Patton

The Violent & Valiant Take Heaven - 0 views

DIIGO_FILE_HOME/t08i/u6mw

heaven theology note

shared by Gary Patton on 08 Jul 12 - No Cached
  • " The violent and valiant are they which take heaven by force: cowards never won heaven. Say not that thou hast royal blood running in thy veins, and art begotten of God, except thou canst prove thy pedigree by this heroic spirit, to dare to be holy despite men and devils. The eagle tries her young ones by the sun; Christ tries his children by their courage, that dare to look on the face of death and danger for his sake ..." (Mark 8:34, 35) ~ Pastor William Gurnall (1617–1679) English author & clergyman from Chpt. 1 of his e-Book, "The Christian in Complete Armour ...A Treatise Of the Saints' War Against the Devil" at http://is.gd/Na6TmN "Take heart therefore, O ye saints, and be strong; your cause is good, God himself espouseth your quarrel, who hath appointed you his own Son, General of the field, called 'the Captain of our salvation,’ Heb. 2:10. He shall lead you on with courage, and bring you off with honour. He lived and died for you; he will live and die with you; for mercy and tenderness to his soldiers, none like him. Trajan, it is said, rent his clothes to bind up his soldiers' wounds: Christ poured out his blood as balm to heal his saints' wounds; tears off his flesh to bind them up. For prowess, none to compare with him: he never turned his head from danger: no, not when hell's malice and heaven's justice appeared in field against him; knowing all that should come upon him, [he] went forth and said, 'Whom seek ye?’" (John 18:4) ~ Pastor William Gurnall (1617–1679) English author & clergyman from Chpt. 1 of his e-Book, "The Christian in Complete Armour ...A Treatise Of the Saints' War Against the Devil" at http://is.gd/Na6TmN "In a word, Christians, God and angels are spectators, observing how you quit yourselves like children of the Most High; every exploit your faith doth against sin and Satan causeth a shout in heaven; while you valiantly prostrate this temptation, scale that difficulty, regain the other ground, you even now lost out of your enemies' hands. Your dear Saviour, who stands by with a reserve for your relief at a pinch, his very heart leaps within him for joy to see the proof of your love to him and zeal for him in all your combats; and will not forget all the faithful service you have done in his wars on earth; but when thou comest out of the field, will receive thee with the like joy as he was entertained himself at his return to heaven of his Father." ~ Pastor William Gurnall (1617–1679) English author & clergyman from Chpt. 1 of his e-Book, "The Christian in Complete Armour ...A Treatise Of the Saints' War Against the Devil" at http://is.gd/Na6TmN
  • Gary Patton on 08 Jul 12
     
    How to make heaven by Pastor William Gurnall (1617-1679) English author & clergyman from Chpt. 1 of his e-Book, "The Christian in Complete Armour ...A Treatise Of the Saints' War Against the Devil" at http://is.gd/Na6TmN
Gary Patton

The Violent & Valiant Take Heaven - 0 views

" The violent and valiant are they which take heaven by force: cowards never won heaven. Say not that thou hast royal blood running in thy veins, and art begotten of God, except thou canst prove th...

heaven theology note

started by Gary Patton on 27 Aug 12 no follow-up yet
Gary Patton

The Sin Nature ...Do Jesus Followers Have One? by Dr. Bill Gillham - 0 views

www.christianforums.com/t22382-3

sin nature Mr. Sin christianity dead religion Gillham scripture interpretation romans galatians

shared by Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11 - No Cached
  • We are known as “humans.” Jesus was a human without a sin nature in that He was never descended from Adam. The Holy Spirit furnished the 23 male chromosomes which united with Mary’s 23 to enable Jesus Christ to leave heaven and take on the form of human male.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      One cou;d argue that this implies that our first parent's sinful, human nature is transmitted ONLY through males. Does mr. Gillam really mean that? gfp
  • It is the sin nature that condemns a man to hell, not his sinful performance.
  • The whole ballgame for all of eternity is spiritual, not physical… the bottom line is spirit!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is why Jesus said we can woship God ONLY in spirit and in truth" (John 4:22-24)!
  • ...44 more annotations...
  • The Bible speaks of only two types of spirit-natures referring to them as “men.” They are the “old man” and the “new man.”
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Modern Bible translated have changed the literal translation of the King James Version of "man" to "self" and noted the original word in a footnote.
  • the Bible speaks of the old man being able, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, to be born in a new way in order to change his identity (Jn. 3). Through turning from his self-centered rebellion, submitting himself to Christ’s authority as the God He is, appropriating His provision for getting shed of his dead spirit and beginning all over again with a new, good, alive, godly spirit, man can become something he has never been…alive to God through Christ (Rom.6:13). This new man is now a son of God via faith in Christ (Jn. 1:12).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is why the Bible says only Jesus Followers are "children of God" and not all people. The latter are His "creation". But, non-Followers are not his children until they are put to death, spiritually, with Jesus and, then, resurrected or "re-born", as Jesus told the Pharisee in John 3:3-5, by Holy Spirit. gfp
  • We are cut from the same spirit-genetic cloth as our Lovely Lord Jesus! God reveals no provision in His word for adding His Spirit to a spirit-son of the devil You cannot mix Light with darkness.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Don't misunderstand what Mr. Gillham is saying in the second sentence here. All human beings are "sons of the Devil" until re-born in and by Jesus (John 8:42-45) as Mr. Gillham shares above in this article. gfp
  • A great problem exists today in that many well-meaning Christians teach that the death of the old man is simply a “positional truth”; it’s the “position in which God sees us.” They speak of it as if it were something we have to “reckon on” (count it as true) to keep it true.
  • we do not have to reckon on it to derive any benefit from it
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 22 Dec 11
       
      This sentence contains a typo that confuses its sence. I believe that Dr. Gillam intended to write: "...we DO have to reckon on it..." because that is what Romans 6:11 says!
  • The only kind of sons either God or Satan have are spirit-sons,
  • In God’s ecology, in order for a man to cease to be the son of Satan and become a son of God, the man must first die (spiritually) and then be reborn (spiritually), this time to a NEW FATHER! This is portrayed clearly in Romans 7:1-4.
  • the flesh (body, brain, memory traces (flesh) in the brain
  • The reason a Christian doesn’t have a sin nature is because he is no longer the spirit-genes of God, his (New) Father! Hallelujah! Shout for joy! Whoooooeeeee!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 22 Dec 11
       
      This sentence also includes a typo that confuses its sense. I believe it should be read, and Dr. Gillham intended to write: "The reason a Christian doesn't have a sin nature is because he has no longer the spirit-genes of Satan but has those of God, his (New) Father!"
  • you are NOW a holy (Eph. 1:4), righteous (2 Cor. 5:21), saint of God (Rom. 1:7), blameless (Eph. 1:4), with Christ as your very Life (Col. 3:4), a son of God (Jn. 1:12), housed in an earthsuit (2 Cor. 5:1-8), a citizen of heaven (Eph. 2:19), on foreign assignment as an ambassador representing the “Fatherland” (2 Cor. 5:20), a righteous son of the King (2 Cor. 5:21), a spirit-son of the Second Adam (1 Cor. 11:45), spawned from His Spirit gene pool (Rom. 8:9), filled up with Christ Himself (Eph. 3:19), will all your needs (not greeds) supplied (Phil. 4:19), blessed with every spiritual blessing in heaven (Eph. 1:3), impervious to the obstacles of this planet (Phil.4:13), taking all things in stride as a part of the Loving Father’s “obstacle course” designed to prepare us for eternal rulership (Rom. 8:28-29)!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is an incredible list of Biblical truths that flow from our being born-again in Messiah!
  • It’s not my old self that I am fighting against inside! It’s the power of sin working on my (new) mind (Rom. 7:23) through the flesh (the old memory traces) that I battle, and we are dead to having to submit, brother! (Rom. 6:11)
  • Accept this by faith as your true identity! Set your mind on it! Dwell on it! Meditate on the truth of it! Then, moment by moment act like it is true!
  • Can a man possibly possess dual spiritual sonship? No?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      This is an incredible freedom-granting truth and a major benefit of being born-again children of God!
  • Stop acting like who you are not! That’s hypocritical! Act like the new man you are by faith! That’s obedience!
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
       
      Our "New Man/Creation" is truly astounding. In life or death situations, human beings can lift cars. Just think for a moment of the limitless capabilities we have as New Creations in Jesus. We are flowing and operating in the power our Inner Warrior when we "abide/rest in" Jesus (John 15:5) and "live His Spirit" (Galatians 5:15).
  • “The King is Dead! Long Live the King!”
  • was thoroughly confused
  • he was talking about two different people
  • But after the one’s “birth” as the new king, the old king could never again resurrect himself because he had no capability for self-resurrection! The very existence of the one precludes the existence of the other and vice versa!
  • The old man has indeed died (Romans 6:6, etc.) and the new man has indeed been generated by the Holy Spirit (Colossians 3:10, etc.). But, unfortunately, the pervasive position taken by most Christian leader is that the old man is till “alive and well’ within the believer…that sinful performance gives daily testimony to this as “fact.”
  • The two can’t coexist any more that the two kings can! It was the death of the old man, which enabled the new man to be born! It is impossible for the new man to exist until the old man has died and the old man cannot resurrect himself. There is but One Life Who has such resurrection power…the Life of Christ!
  • Galatians 5:17 says that the “flesh lusts against the spirit” and vice versa and there is obviously a war going on inside of every Christian, but it’s not the old man versus the new man doing battle.
  • Those cannot exist simultaneously.
  • peaks of the POWER OF INDWELLING IN (not the sin nature) working in man to produce undesirable (sinful) behavior. The power of sin simply deceives the Christian by masquerading as the old man, suggesting (deceiving) to the will that a choice be made to perform according to the old self-serving patterns programmed in previously. This is referred to as “walking after the flesh.”
  • masquerade in the thought life of the Christian posing as his unique version of the old man! The naïve Christian will believe he, himself, is generating the unchristian suggestion and thus direct his defensive efforts against the wrong foe…what he perceives to be a darker side of himself! He fires all his bullets at a shadow! This is the explanation for the frustration depicted in Romans 7:15 “…why do I do the very thing I hate? Why can I get no victory?”
  • Though it would appear that the “two-natures” view places the greater responsibility for poor performance squarely on the Christian and that the “one-nature” view is a cop out, the opposite is actually true!
  • So long as one embraces the former he is constantly deceived into believe his failure is just standard Christian experience. As Scofield said (paraphrased), “This is not standard Christian experience, it’s the standard experience of most Christians,” the tragic result of faulty discipling.
  • Once the Christian enters into identification with Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension, claiming he no longer has two natures, but is now “the righteousness of God in Christ” and “holy and blameless in His sight” he is without excuse when he sins, because he knows what it is to possess the Life (“Christ in me”) which overcomes on a moment-by-moment basis.
  • In reality, it is accepted as fact that Christians no longer have a sin nature that places one squarely on the hook and totally responsible to choose, moment-by-moment, against the wooings, deceptions and accusations of indwelling sin working through the flesh. “Always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus (moment-by-moment) in our body.” (2 Cor. 4:10—NAS)
  • Indwelling sin deceives the “two-natures” believer into rationalizing, “I’m just human. I just fail a lot and God understands it’s just my old sin nature that got the better of me.” This is the true cop out position!
  • Awake sleeper! The king is dead! Long live the King!
  • The power of sin is what its name implies, a power to entice you into sin. It dwells in you (Rom.7:21) yet it is not you any more than a gold tooth that dwells in your mouth is you. Sin’s goal is to deceive the saints into living to get their needs (though good and godly) met by sinning rather than by using the Matt. 6:33 method; that is, “seeking Christ first.”
  • The power of sin is not your sin nature. Your sin nature is a synonym for old man or old self. That “old you” was crucified in Christ (Rom. 6:6). Before you were saved, it was as normal for you old nature to rebel against God’s authority as it is for a fish to swim.
  • Yet the power of sin is alive and well in you, saint. It indwells your body (Rom. 7:23). On page 1055 of W.E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Vine states that sin is, “a governing principle or power” that is “personified” in the following passages. He then lists sixteen verses in which this holds true. The term personified means “represented as a person.” The power of sin can represent itself as a personage.
  • Since sin is personified, let’s call it “Mr. Sin” so we won’t confuse it with the verb. Mr. Sin tries to control you, to make you live to satisfy your bodily needs.
  • “For sin shall not be master over you…(Rom. 6:14). Mr. Sin (the personification) cannot master you. Remember how sin is “represented as a person?” It tries to master you through presenting thoughts to your mind by masquerading as the old man who has risen from the tomb. But no one except Jesus can do that, right? That’s not the old man; it’s the power of sin personified.
  • “But, if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but Mr. Sin which indwells me (is somehow doing it)” (Rom. 7:20). This verse can really be a puzzler if you interpret the word “sin” as a verb. But it’s a noun, and Vine says it is personified (represented as a person).
  • Mr. Sin the “personage,” wars, fights and seeks to control your mind. But your mind does not want to be controlled by this power, so it fights back.
  • Can you see what a difference this makes in motivating a Christian as opposed to berating him by constantly telling him what a sorry, no-good sinner he is and how he is going to face an angry God some day? Folk, it’s our works which will be judged in the future, not our personhood (2 Cor. 5:10) and God is not mad at the saved. He took our all the anger He had against us on Jesus (Isa. 53). We’ll either be rewarded or we’ll lose what we potentially could have won, but “there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ” (Rom. 8:1).
  • The Law is the source of Mr. Sin’s strength. To couple law with Mr. Sin is like pouring gas on a fire. This personage called sin needs a law to aid it if it is to optimally control you. It “eats, breathes and sleeps” via the Law.
  • “The Law is not made for a righteous man” (1 Tim. 1:9).
  • Why? Because you, the righteous man (2 Cor. 5:21), don’t need it. The lost man does (in order to show him his condition), but you don’t. You now “have the laws of God written on (your) heart and mind” (Heb. 10:16).
  • it was exciting to discover that a man of Vine’s stature as a scholar testifies that the power of sin is often personified in the Word. What liberty there is in knowing that the rebellious, evil, hateful thoughts I experience are being presented to my mind, not generated by it.
  • In this verse, sin is represented as a personage which can harden you through deception.
  • Is Our Sin Nature dead or NOT?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 25 Feb 12
       
      In the short articles below, Dr. Gillham demolishes the common teaching, often implies by preachers, that a Jesus Follower can have two natures ... a Satanic, sinful nature plus the righteous nature of God in Christ? This hypothesis" or opinion (http://is.gd/2tUCAb) is taught or implied by many in the church usually as truth. It also is implied by the New International Version (NIV) Bible's translating Biblical 'flesh' as "sin nature" ...wrongly as Dr. Gillham illustrates. Can a wo(man) really possess a dual spiritual sonship? You'll find freeing meditating on the clear Biblical answer presented here because Rev. Gillham says the answer is "NO! We don't have two natures!!" "Stop trying and start trusting God! It's not what you have to do that counts. But what Jesus has already fully done for you and the power He gives you because He lives in you!" ~ gfp '42™ gfp (2011-09)
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    In these 3 short articles, Dr. Gillham addresses teaching that a Jesus Follower can have two natures ... a Satanic, sinful nature plus the righteous nature of God in Christ? This hypothesis" or opinion is taught or implied by many in the church usually as truth. It also is implied by the New International Version (NIV) Bible's translating Biblical "flesh" as "sin nature". But, can a wo(man) really possess a dual spiritual sonship? The clear Biblical answer according to Bill Gillham is "NO!" "Stop trying ...and start trusting God, It's not what you do. But what Jesus has already fully done for you!" ~ gfp '42™ gfp (2011-09)
  • Gary Patton on 01 Dec 11
     
    "Mr. Sin" is a more dangerous moment-to-moment foe for you than Satan. Pastor Gillham tells why! gfp
Gary Patton

"The Story of Jesus' True Death and Resurrection for All of Humankind" - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture matthew scripture interpretation scripture topics Jesus Yeshua Jesus Following faith

shared by Gary Patton on 08 Oct 12 - No Cached
  • And Jesus (A)cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
  • the [a]veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and (D)the earth shook and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the [b]saints who had (E)fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered (F)the holy city and appeared to many.
  • Gary Patton on 08 Oct 12
     
    "The Story of Jesus' True Death and Resurrection for All of Humankind" Matthew 27:50 to Matthew 28:7 in the Christian New Covenant (Testament) makes clear that Jesus, who was miraculously and supernaturally fully man of flesh and bones and yet fully a dimension of the One Almighty God, was crucified and His body but not His spirit, died on a torture instrument. It also explains how the living God Emmanuel, or God with us, was buried in a tomb along with the proofs of why no man could have, or did, steal our one and only Saviour's human body. Finally, ii clarifies how Jesus was later raised from His grave as the only God-man in a glorified body with nail marks in his hands and feet. Into those holes one of his first Followers put his fingers. He then fell to his knees as a Jew believing in One Gaod and exclaimed" "My Lord and my God!" (at http://is.gd/1wjS7f ). Why each of these facts are important are outlined in the further e-Sticky Notes on some individual versus below. Please understand that many of these facts are attested to outside the Bible by Jesus' contemporary, Josephus. He was a famous Jewish historian of Yeshua's (Jesus') co-coreligionists, the Jews. It's because of these facts that Jesus of Nazareth, described in the Christian Bible cannot be the Isa of the Qur'an. GaryFPatton (gfp '42™ 2012-10-08)
Gary Patton

Augustine BuilT A Pagan Bridge From Christianity To Islam! - Is the West ready for Islam? - 0 views

islam4jesus.org/...m-christian-tradition-to-islam

bible Scripture christian islam islamism islamization

shared by Gary Patton on 25 May 12 - No Cached
  • Gary Patton on 25 May 12
     
    Well written and articulate analysis of the Pagan background of some of Augustine of Hippo's thought and writing ...but taken to enorous and ridulous conclusions about the validity of Islam. gfp (2012-05-25)
Gary Patton

"The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church" - Book Summary - 0 views

www.grandpappy.info/brapture.htm

bible scripture scripture interpretation rapture

shared by Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12 - No Cached
  • The following summary is based on Chapter Ten of Marvin Rosenthal's book, The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      In his book, "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", Marvin Rosenthal, outlines a powerful, Biblical analysis of the Old and New Covenants regarding when the so-called "Rapture" of Jesus Followers takes place. Mr. Rosenthal concludes from his well-documented, clear, easy-to-understand and graphics-supported analysis that the commonly-believed "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" theological position of most North American Bible teachers is inaccurate and not supported by a careful Biblical analysis. This is an excellent summary of the key aspects of Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • There is a debate going on among Christians
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      The debate is because Jesus said: "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect" (Luke 12:40). Please read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . It clearly stated there that we cannot know for certain when Jesus will return for his Followers and the judge the earth. But we can be certain He will do so! Therefore, Jesus Followers are wise to live lives of faith, obeying Jesus in all things as we are commanded in 2 Peter 3:8-13 (Contemporary English Version (CEV)) 8 Dear friends, don't forget that for the Lord one day is the same as a thousand years, and a thousand years is the same as one day. 9 The Lord isn't slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost. 10 The day of the Lord's return will surprise us like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a loud noise, and the heat will melt the whole universe. [a] Then the earth and everything on it will be seen for what they are. [b] 11 Everything will be destroyed. So you should serve and honor God by the way you live. 12 You should look forward to the day when God judges everyone, and you should try to make it come soon. [c] On that day the heavens will be destroyed by fire, and everything else will melt in the heat. 13 But God has promised us a new heaven and a new earth, where justice will rule. We are really looking forward to that! Footnotes: 2 Peter 3:10 the whole universe: Probably the sun, moon, and stars, or the elements that everything in the universe is made of. 2 Peter 3:10 will be seen for what they are: Some manuscripts have "will go up in flames." 2 Peter 3:12 and you should try to make it come soon: Or "and you should eagerly desire for that day to come."
  • The fact of the Rapture is not in question (at least not among Christians).
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree that 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 describes what Christians call 'The rapture. This verse is included below in the discussion of the Scriptures re the "Sixth Seal" mention in the "Book of Revelation" in the Bible.
  • ...13 more annotations...
  • Most Christians believe it will occur immediately before the tribulation period begins. A few Christians believe it will occur either during the tribulation period, or near the very end of the tribulation period.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      As you'll discover, the latter belief, i.e., just before the end of the Tribulation, is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis.
  • Christians believe the entire Bible is the true and accurate Word of God, and it is without error.
  • The most logical way to address this issue is to see what the Holy Bible has to say about this event.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Many Christian teachers would say the last statement here is too strongly put. They would say that "the Bible is infalabie" only in its original source documents ...none of which ave been found when I write this in 2012. Teachers, generally, are less dogmatic on the infalibility of current translations. They offer various positions on this issue.
  • Do not rely on footnotes added to your Bible. A biblical footnote is not the inspired Word of God, even though it is printed in your Bible. It is simply one person's interpretation of scripture.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is a valuable warning.
  • Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      You'll find out about the background and expereice of the author of this article at http://is.gd/sAdEWE. Regrettably, "Grandpappy" his nickname, does not describe his background as a Christian.
  • Who, of their own accord, without the witness of a fellow Christian, would be willing to accept the Christian faith if that meant they would be immediately slain?
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      I'm unsure that this argument proves anything! No one accepts Jesus as Saviour and Lord of their own accord before, during or, as noted here, after the so-called Rapture of "Believers in Jesus" that are still alive on the earth just before the opening of the "Sixth Seal". We are always and only saved by God's grace and even our faith, which is involved as it says in Ephesians 2:8-9, is a gift from Father God. Holy Spirit does the convicting and the saving of pre-believers. There is no Scripture that says Holy Spirit's presence EVER leaves the earth, that I've found.
  • In the book of Revelation, a great multitude of Christians, from all over the world, suddenly appear in heaven. For someone with an open mind, these two descriptions are almost identical to what we Christians call the Rapture of the saints. Notice also that this reference to the Rapture in the book of Revelation occurs right after the 144,000 Jews are ordained to spread the Gospel. God does not want anyone to perish, and he has provided a way for the Gospel to be carried forth after all the new testament Christians are Raptured.
  • Christians will be spared from that wrath.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      Most Jesus Followers would agree with this statement on the basis of the numerous Scritures you can find described at http://is.gd/3y1nV8 . I lean especially on 1 Thessalonians 5: 9 at http://diigo.com/0mkzs . I believe all the Scriptures at the above link clearly refer to Jesus Followers' salvation, in Christ, from an eternity separated from God. The latter seems to be what happens after the "Seventh Seal" is opened on those still remaining on the earth.
  • That is why they will be Raptured sometime between the opening of the 6th seal and the 7th seal.
    • Gary Patton
      Gary Patton on 19 Jan 12
       
      This is Mr. Rosenthal's thesis based on his anlysis of the Old and New Covenant Scriptures mention above by this author. Mr. Rosenthal includes more in his book which I recommend to you for prayerful consideration, study and meditation. gfp (2012-01-19)
  • The opening of the seventh seal begins God's Wrath on an unbelieving world (from which Christians are spared).
  • This is a poor choice of terms for Daniel's 70th week, because
  • My purpose was to provide you with more information upon which you can make an informed decision.
  • His book is not based on personal opinion. It is based on the Word of God
  • Gary Patton on 16 Jan 12
     
    This summary of Marvin Rosenthal's thesis in the book of the above title is by Robert Wayne Atkins, P.E.. He summarizes Rosenthal's Old and New Covenant Scripture analysis regarding the timing of the rapture of the Church.
Gary Patton

Warnings About False Teachers - Bible Gateway - 0 views

www.biblegateway.com/passage

bible scripture jude warnings false teachers end-times

shared by Gary Patton on 14 Feb 12 - No Cached
  • revile [i]angelic majesties
  • To (C)those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and (D)kept for Jesus Christ:
  • I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you (I)contend earnestly for (J)the faith which was once for all (K)handed down to (L)the [c]saints. 4 For certain persons have (M)crept in unnoticed,
  • ...5 more annotations...
  • Woe to them! For they have gone (AJ)the way of Cain, and for pay [k]they have rushed headlong into (AK)the error of Balaam, and (AL)perished in the rebellion of Korah.
  • These are (AY)grumblers
  • But you, (BC)beloved, (BD)ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by (BE)the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “(BF)In the last time there will be mockers, (BG)following after their own ungodly lusts.”
  • Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to (BQ)make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with (BR)great joy,
  • Jude 1
  • Gary Patton on 14 Feb 12
     
    Jude's teachings are important to all Jesus Followers and those who are yet to believe in Him but have an open, inquiring mind.
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