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General Ibrahim Hammad of the Egyptian State Security Investigations Service (SSIS) took the opportunity of Egypt's briefing on regional and international terrorist activities to attack the Muslim Brotherhood (MB), the political-social organization founded and centered in Egypt with branches and elements across the Middle East. In preface, Hammad observed that the core challenge in fighting terror in the region is ideological. Some groups maintain ideologies irreconcilable with modernity and the international order, Hammad asserted. Dialogue with extremist groups constitutes a reversal and a set back, he continued.

Moving on from the MB, Hammad said the GOE was gravely concerned by the challenges presented by the proliferation of extremist websites on the Internet. He acknowledged that Egypt was facing difficulty in adapting and responding to these new challenges that were consequences of rapid technological innovations. Terrorists are using the Internet to research plan and execute operations, he asserted. Hammad regretted the lack of international coordination and cooperation to quickly remove from the Internet extremist websites. "If we could shut these sites down we could reduce terrorist operations by 50 percent," he asserted.

The caller, who identified himself as "Mohammad Mohammadain," told Bahgat that he was taking over SSIS responsibility for EIPR from SSIS official Mo'ataz (NFI). Bahgat declined to visit Mohammadain at his office, saying SSIS has no legal basis for summoning EIPR. Bahgat said that SSIS officers could visit EIPR during working hours, and that information about EIPR was available on its website. Bahgat asked his caller not to harass EIPR staff as Mo'ataz had done earlier. (Bahgat did not alert his caller that poloff was present.)

After beginning his advocacy on the detainees, who were later released, Bahgat was contacted by SSIS officer Walid El-Desouki, who is well known in Egypt's NGO and opposition circles. Bahgat described El-Desouki as "thuggish" and said he was relieved when El-Desouki was replaced in 2003 by Sharif El-Damati, whom he described as a "yuppie SSIS officer for a yuppie kid like me." Bahgat noted that he and El-Damati established a modus vivendi, based on Bahgat's willingness to provide publicly-available information about EIPR in response to visits to EIPR by El-Damati. El-Damati, however, was reassigned in spring 2004, after he testified in the trial of anti-war activist Ashraf Ibrahim who was exonerated on charges of defaming Egypt by passing information abroad on human rights abuses.

Abdul Rahman asserted, however, that many complaints against SSIS come from "illegal entities" linked to leftist circles opposing USG-GOE links. Abdul Rahman said that many of these activists receive EU funding, but gave no specific examples. Warming to this theme, Abdul Rahman said "leftist NGOs" play a leading role in stirring up the Egyptian street against the GOE.

Abdul Rahman opined that the MB electoral success was not a reflection of real MB influence in Egypt. The Egyptian people, he said, are "culturally and politically immature," and were led astray by MB independent candidates campaigning on the theme that Islam is under attack around the world. Abdul Rahman said U.S. military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Israeli operations against the Palestinians, had angered "the poor and the young" in Egypt, and made them susceptible to the MB slogan "Islam is the solution." The MB success in the 2005 parliamentary elections, said Abdul Rahman, "was not a real success nor was it a reflection of their real influence." Abdul Rahman asserted the GOE does not use the Emergency Laws against the MB. The ordinary penal and criminal code is sufficient, he said. The GOE only resorts to the EL in the case of violent extremists.

Abdel Rahman said that he commands over 40,000 police officers and told Stork he could count on one hand the number who had committed abuses. Abdel Rahman objected to Stork's use of the word torture, saying it implied something "systemic" and said Egypt's security services were "badly maligned." Stork asked about the monitoring and harassment of NGOs, which Abdel Rahman said was necessary because such organizations are run by "anarchists" and people with prior arrests who need "monitoring."

Abdel Rahman named one of his deputies, Colonel Hisham Abdel Hamid, SSIS' human rights liaison, as HRW's point of contact