Lucas Cook
Contents contributed and discussions participated by Lucas Cook
high stakes testing contributes to drop out rate - 42 views
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My question... and wondering... is what would replace standardized testing? The Public wants "accountability" and they see the easiest way is standardized tests. They also don't want THEIR children to be the one who fails and gets held back.
It seems to me that there is a Catch-22 here, the "public" wants accountability through standardized tests, but as long as it is not their child getting the negative effects of this. There is this huge push for improvement and all that, but also kids get passed along from grade to grade for "social" reasons.
I think we need to discuss effective alternate ways of assessment that don't punish those who don't test well, and yet still keeps the public happy.
Brec Cooke wrote:
> I posted a link of a Texas study that shows high correlation between high stakes testing and drop out rates. Perhaps we should think about conducting a similar study here in the District thru the urban collaborate research program. i suspect we'd find similar results and perhaps we could begin making some effort to move away from the insanity of this singular focus. bc
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I think many of us agree that ST don't work or at least don't test what they were intended to test. If this is so, and at least for the sake of this discussion let's say it is, what do we do instead?
Ideas?
The only ideas I have had so far are either a Comp style examination or a menu of different options for a exit exam/project/performance/something more in line with the student's intrests etc.
Any other ideas?
On the other hand the public is split (39 too much, 25 not enough, 33 about right, 5 don't know) on their thoughts of the amount of testing. But they agree in a vast majority that the phenomenon of "teaching to the test" will occur (67%) and that this is a bad thing (75% of those who said it will occur).
In the end we are I believe public servants and as such we cannot deny the public in their will and wants. They want "accountability" or at least the feeling of a guarantee that someone with a High School Diploma can read and do basic math. I don't think that is a bad thing.
Knowing that someone who has graduated high school can be expected to have certain skills is perfectly reasonable.
I agree there are other issues out there, smaller class sizes yes of course thats important, and equitable distribution of resources are important issues.
I think there is a way to satisfy the public need/desire for "accountability" and improve education. The public sees this accountability as a way to make sure we do not fall behind in terms of education. This perception I think is fueled by politicians and NCLB rightly or wrongly is another question. I personally think that the NCLB and politicians have overinflated the issue of the US falling behind in terms of education.
Given my thoughts on teachers as public servants I still say that there needs to be some alternative to ST that will still give the public at least their felling of "accountability."
Brec Cooke wrote:
> My thinking on this issue, Lucas, is that we need to begin to challenge the rhetoric of accountability because it is this rhetoric that drives public policy, not public policy that drives accountability. We know there is no link between increased testing and improved teaching or improved learning. In fact we know that high-stakes testing leads to some very poor teaching practices, such as teaching to the test, and very poor administrative practices, such as limiting resources for students deemed difficult to teach. We know that high stakes testing merely provides the legitimacy for not talking about other issues, such as smaller class sizes, equitable distribution of educational resources, better teacher education, and the way in which middle-class White values produce and re-produce the normative structures and cultures of schools (including testing) that systematically marginalize minority students.
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> Perhaps more important, the rhetoric of "failed" accountability not only shifts the public debate away from these issues that truly need to be addressed , but also removes the very debate over performance itself away from the context of the classroom, away from where the focus should be. [We all know about the student who is in 4th grade, reading at level 1.2, who works very hard, has a great teacher, and by the end of the year is reading at 4.1, having made up nearly three levels of reading in one year, who then fails to achieve "proficiency" because s/he can not/does not score 4.4 or better at the end of 4th grade.] The rhetoric based upon her or his "failure" shapes public perceptions in a highly selective manner, further eroding public support for public education. Here in the District of Columbia, this rhetoric of failed accountability has all but assured the full privatization of the public school system, without any evidence that the wave of charter schools taking over education here or elsewhere perform better than the public schools, without any debate about the larger educational issues mentioned above, or without any debate over the value of public education in American society. I call it the "Katrina without the storm" model. So, I want the standardized testing people to begin to defend their testing, make them defend just exactly how efficiency models and high-stakes testing improve education. I have 50 years of data to back me up that they don't.
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> Thousands of kids in this country go to elite private schools where there is virtually no standardized testing other than college required PSATs, ACTs, SATs (and now with the California system and William and Mary no longer requiring these tests for admissions, perhaps those won't be all that necessary either). These students seem to do okay on the whole; certainly the public perception is that they do. So as an alternative to testing, let's begin to discuss how that happens, not because these schools are "private" but because of what takes place in the classrooms of these schools in place of standardized tests. Let's start asking why public schools can't produce the same type of education. After all, we are not just the richest nation in the world, but the richest nation in the history of the world. If we're so concerned about falling behind the rest of the world in terms of education, then we should begin to take seriously, and begin to discuss, seriously, exactly what it takes to produce a world-class educational system rather than simply hiding behind the rhetoric of pointing out that we don't have such a system--essentially doing nothing to make it better.
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> Lucas Cook wrote:
> > I was thiking about what Brec Cook said about the higer drop out rates because of these high pressure/risk standardized tests (ST). It got me thinking about what could be done differently.
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> > I think many of us agree that ST don't work or at least don't test what they were intended to test. If this is so, and at least for the sake of this discussion let's say it is, what do we do instead?
> >
> >
> > Ideas?
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> >
> > The only ideas I have had so far are either a Comp style examination or a menu of different options for a exit exam/project/performance/something more in line with the student's intrests etc.
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> >
> > Any other ideas?
First off while I do believe teachers are public servants, I believe I misspoke somewhat when I said we cannot deny them in their wills and wants. It was the first time I had fully articulate such a thought and as such it is still in its formative phases. To clarify what I meant: I believe that we cannot ignore the public in its wants. At the very least we need to acknowledge what they are saying and give it due time and thought.
I agree that market logic and democracy are often at odds with each other, I also believe that in groups larger than a few hundred, at most; true democracy where every person votes on every matter is impractical. Unfortunately in our society so few people actually exercise the right to vote on our representatives in the government and what few propositions that are given to us that I would almost hesitate to call the US a democracy at all. I still do believe that when the public makes its voice heard we should at least listen.
I think the transformation from political to economic is already done, the public uses roads and social security and other forms of government products as consumers. I think that has already happened. Our society is such a consumption based culture we even get our government to provide with more things to consume, such as education, roadways, safety (both domestic and foreign), and many other services. Given we all pay for these services (or at least all should there are free riders but to a certain extent that can't be helped/is beyond the scope of this discussion) with taxes and the like.
The government cannot always ask for a highly democratic solution to an answer. It is already big and unwieldy enough and I think efficiency in the system is a good thing, although in some cases such as education it is misguided. Though I also think with a fairly minimal sacrifice in efficiency we can achieve much better results for all involved; students, teachers, parents, and the general public. A better educated person coming out of high school benefits everyone.
Yes I do think that every student with a High School Diploma should have certain basic skills, at the very least. Those skills are valuable, but everyone should have them. I also think that every person has strengths and weaknesses and the current state of ST does not take that into account at all. ST's have also proven to be culture biased, yes I agree that is a problem that I think a change, a different approach, something can address this problem. Everyone should be given the opportunity to succeed, and ST's are holding people back because they can't pass them, or not well enough. If we find another way to fulfill the "need for accountability" and the desire to allow everyone to succeed to their highest potential I think we have done our jobs as educators.
I think we need public forums where interested citizenry can get together and discuss these issues. I think we are starting that process right now. I still think we need to come up with an alternative to STs so that we can move on and make our education more equal and fair.
When I say "feeling of accountability" I do not mean we should trick or deceive people. The public wants to know that a person with a high school diploma has met certain standards, STs currently at least give some people that feeling and they are content. The reality is much less important to the public than their perception. If we can keep that perception of "accountability" while at the same time increasing its reality. I think we can find an alternative to STs that will be more accurate and more reflective of skills than any fill in the bubble test will ever be, we can both keep the public happy and do a better job as educators.
Brec Cooke wrote:
> It's interesting, Lucas, that you bring up the notion of public servant in relationship to "giving the public what they want as you put it." One of the insidious elements of the current technical-managerial form of accountability that I find particularly distasteful is how it seeks to transform the relationship between government and citizens from a political relationship to an economic relationship, viz. the state as a provider and the citizen as a consumer of public services. While it is highly democratic to demand that the public sector respond to the desires of the community, such a democratic value is not the same as a market logic which focuses on efficiency of processes. In the latter, there is no public discussion of what ought or ought not to be the outcomes of public education. You think it's valuable that someone with a High School Diploma can read and do basic math, should be "expected to have certain skills." I, on the other hand, am concerned with a system that privileges the cultural repertoire of one group over another, leaving marginalized groups with merely basic skills. My concern is with the current hegemony of the "rhetoric" of accountability that simply reproduces existing inequalities by converting already existing economic and social advantage into cultural capital (advantage), without having any public deliberation (democracy) over what the outcomes of education ought to be or over the larger political concerns of the just and equitable distribution of public resources. You and I, along with the rest of the citizenry, need to discuss these differences as part of the democratic process.
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> The current situation in the District is exemplary in the above sense. Currently, parents and students can vote their economic preference about the quality of their educational services, that is they can "vote" with their feet by leaving the public school system and moving to the Charter School system; they do not, however, have a democratic say about the overall direction of or content of what is available in the first place. More importantly, such a process only further erodes public support for pubic education. As such, I subscribe to the notion of teacher as cultural worker as opposed to public servant. I have a responsibility as a teacher to think about and engage the public debate surrounding education. In that way, I can be authentically responsible, both as a citizen and as a professional, rather than merely performing in what I guess I would find a rather limited, if not somewhat deceptive, manner by only giving the public a "feeling" of accountability.