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Jack Frost

Atheism and politics: Count the fallacies with Christopher Hitchens! - 0 views

atheismandpolitics.blogspot.com/...allacies-with-christopher.html

atheism Religion Christian Christian Nation Christopher Hitchens National Day of Prayer Non-sequitur Bad reasoning

shared by Jack Frost on 19 Apr 10 - Cached
  • Jack Frost on 19 Apr 10
     
    Try to keep track of the looping reason shown by a Christian as he meets Christopher Hitchens in a quick exchange about the National Day of Prayer.
Jeffery Reid

Theology Today - Vol 50, No. 2 - July 1993 - ARTICLE - Not The Way It's S'pposed to Be:... - 0 views

theologytoday.ptsem.edu/...v50-2-article2.htm

shared by Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07 - Cached
  • Moreover, whether or not they believe in evolutionary naturalism, people who think of human beings as their own centers and lawgivers find the whole idea of utter dependence on a superior quite galling. After all, the proposal that we ought to worship someone who is better than we are, that we ought to study this person's will and then bend our lives to it, that we ought to confess our sins to this same person and beg forgiveness for them, meanwhile pinning our hopes on a gracious response-all this sounds humiliatingly undemocratic.
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      This is simply incorrect. Naturalists believe that "society" drives these and that we are all dependent on society explicitly or implicitly
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 05 Sep 07
       
      Whom should I trust here with the definition of naturalism? The man with the advanced degrees in theology from Yale and Princeton who just happens to be the brother of one of the most respected philosophers working today (google Alvin Plantinga the philosopher from Notre Dame), or you?
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      FYI: The writer's brother Alvin's bio is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga For those interested you can read the writer's brother's theories on Naturalism here: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/philosophy/virtual_library/articles/plantinga_alvin/naturalism_defeated.pdf
  • pride, envy, anger, sloth, avarice, gluttony, and lust)
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      Psychology knows that these are present in all humans but to differing degrees. Trying to avoid them is hopeless. And fearing their presence is sad and wastes human effort
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      Just because a discipline like psychology says these are present in all humans, does not mean there is not a cause beyond chemical reactions in the brain. And I disagree. Do you really want to embrace these?
  • culpable in the eyes of God.
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      Wrong. Sin is as susceptible to mores as crime. A simple read of the old testament (and new) confirms this. How many sins are listed there that have no relevance in today's society? Laws on slavery, treatment of children, treatment of non-believers. Has this guy actually read the Bible lately?
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 05 Sep 07
       
      Yes, and he also happens to be the President of Calvin College. Jeff, I didn't expect you to agree with this stuff, I was trying to help you see my perspective. FYI: there are 613 laws in the Old Testament Torah. Not even a Jew expects a Gentile to abide by all of them. I met with a rabbi recently and he confirmed this. Your interpretation of the Bible continues to disregard context.
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      See noahide laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah Of the 613 laws in the OT, there are civic, ceremonial, and moral laws. Because Christians believe Jesus' sacrifice was the ending of the sacrificial system, we do not abide by the sacrificial laws (nor do the Jews because of the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD). Nor do we abide by the civic laws because we are not apart of the nation of Israel. I know this begs all kinds of other questions, but they will take us on rabbit trails we may not yet want to trod upon.
  • ...5 more annotations...
  • Take the case of a white boy raised in a family of racists in Mississippi in the 1850s.
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      Or, replace that with a Christian who was born to a Christian family and has no real choice in the matter.
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      Fine, but what relevance does this have to do with the writer's thesis? You continue to attack but you're like one staring at a Seurat painting unsatisfied with particular dots. Comment on the piece as a whole with a logical argument against it.
  • absorb racism from his environment
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      My GOD!!! What about the racism in the Bible sactioned by God? What about Exodus with God having the Israelites killing tribes ONLY because of their race? Have you read the Bible, dude?
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      Jeff, on what grounds are you upset by the violence in the Bible? Are you upset because you don't see how it relates to the two greatest commandments (love God and others), so you don't think it is logically coherent, or are you upset because you don't like the killing of people who do wrong things? And, yes, the writer has read the Bible. He is a biblical scholar, so his understanding of the Bible is perhaps greater than both of ours. If I may, it seems you question here is what right does God have in breaking shalom when we are called not to break shalom. Yes?
  • Biblically instructed Christians
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      When did this happen? The Bible says NOTHING about this. The Bible instructs on racism and slavery. Is this guy a complete idiot?
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 06 Sep 07
       
      There is not ample space here to approach this broad subject. I will approach this in a larger post. One verse declarative in the New Testament is important. Galatians 3:28 "There is no longer Jew or Gentile,* slave or free, male or female. For you are all Christians-you are one in Christ Jesus." I know that will not satisfy, but it will have to do for now. Jeff, on what basis do you call slavery evil?
  • pains God has taken to defeat sin and its wages
    • Jeffery Reid
      Jeffery Reid on 15 Aug 07
       
      Utter nonsense. God instructs His people to do commit mass acts of violence shedding blood everywhere they go in the Old Testament. Jesus says the Old Testament is still the law...
    • bkindall
      bkindall on 05 Sep 07
       
      Utter inability to read the Old Testament in the context of time, Jeff. While you don't like the violence in the Old Testament, you over-state the amount of violence in the time period which is covered in the OT. What you don't like is the idea that the Creator has the right to destroy. AND, your comment has nothing to do with the purpose of this sentence.
  • center of the Christian Bible
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