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Gary Edwards

Getting the (Share)Point About Document Formats [LWN.net] - Gly Moody - 0 views

lwn.net/258232

cdf odf ooxml

shared by Gary Edwards on 27 Nov 07 - Cached
  • The OpenDocument Foundation was formed in 2005, with the mission "to provide a conduit for funding and support for individual contributors to participate in ODF development" at the standards body OASIS. So, at a time when backing for the ODF format seems to be gaining in strength around the world, eyebrows were naturally raised when Sam Hiser, the Foundation's Vice President and Director of Business Affairs, wrote on October 16 that it was no longer supporting ODF:
Gary Edwards

Is this valid? - ODF List Archives - 0 views

lists.oasis-open.org/...msg00107.html

interoperability odf

shared by Gary Edwards on 07 Nov 07 - Cached
  • just played a little with other ODF applications. Looks like Lotus Symphony can handle input fields with paragraphs breaks in it. The XML it produces is:
  • Gary Edwards on 07 Nov 07
     
    Archives of all OASIS ODF TC disussions.  Does not include Metadata, Formula or Accessibility lists
Gary Edwards

ODF Split Shakes Up Document Battle | Redmond Developer News Michael Desmond - 0 views

reddevnews.com/...article.aspx

cdf odf ooxml w3c

shared by Gary Edwards on 06 Nov 07 - Cached
  • The ongoing file format battle between proponents of the OpenDocument Format (ODF) and Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) took a surprising turn lthis week, when a key ODF proponent announced that it intended to abandon the ISO-approved specification. The move by the OpenDocument Foundation comes less than two months after Microsoft lost a key ISO vote to approve OOXML as a standard.
  • Gary Edwards on 06 Nov 07
     
    Thi sis Michael Desmons's second article on the file format wars.
Gary Edwards

OpenDocument Foundation Slams Namesake Format And Calls For True Interoperability | Wir... - 0 views

blog.wired.com/...opendocument-fo.html

cdf odf ooxml w3c

shared by Gary Edwards on 06 Nov 07 - Cached
  • There’s some weight to that accusation when you consider how the applications behind each format operate. For instance, Microsoft Office more or less sucks at handling ODF documents and OpenOffice sucks at opening OOXML files — but why? OpenOffice has largely refused to implement any of the proprietary elements of Microsoft’s Office and Microsoft has made only a passing effort at supporting ODF. The two sides may argue about which is the better file format, but in reality what they’re saying is “our software works better than yours.” From an end user point of view software remains the critical issue — far moreso than the document format itself. But the OpenDocument Foundation would like that to change, they believe that interoperability is the whole point of having a universal format.
  • But it is nice to see that at least some part of office document debate is actually on the real-world user’s side. After all, most of us really don’t care what format our documents are in as long as all our applications can open them. And right now that sort of cross-application compatibility is little more than a pipe dream.
  • Gary Edwards on 06 Nov 07
     
    Wow.  Add another name to the ODF Jihadist list of fatwah targets, "Scott Gilbertson".
Gary Edwards

Jason Brooks - Bumps on the Road to Document Exchange Nirvana - Flock - 0 views

blogs.eweek.com/...e_opendocument_foundation.html

cdf odf ooxml w3c

shared by Gary Edwards on 05 Nov 07 - Cached
  • The OpenDocument Foundation has announced its plans to sever itself from participation in or further advocacy of its namesake office document format in favor of the World Wide Web Consortium's XHTML (Extensible HTML)-based Compound Document Format. Although the OpenDocument Foundation is a fairly small organization, the group sports a certain cachet that stems from the ODF-to-MS Office plug-in that the group announced--but did not release publicly--about a year and a half ago. At the heart of the rift between the Foundation and the rest of the ODF backers--led by Sun and IBM--lies a dispute over the proper strategy for achieving round-trip document fidelity between Microsoft Office and ODF-consuming applications, such as Sun's OpenOffice.org or IBM's Lotus Symphony.
Gary Edwards

ODF and differences of opinion | John Carroll | ZDNet.com - 0 views

blogs.zdnet.com/carroll

cdf foundation odf ooxml w3c

shared by Gary Edwards on 03 Nov 07 - Cached
  • the OpenDocument Foundation had decided to back away from work on ODF in favor of CDF (a W3C-backed standard) out of a belief that ODF wouldn’t achieve the real-world interoperability goals the OpenDocument Foundation was originally created to achieve
Paul Merrell

Alliance Calls on Microsoft to Act on Its Commitment to Implement Support for ODF - 0 views

www.prnewswire.com/...stories.pl

interop microsoft msoffice odf odf alliance

shared by Paul Merrell on 23 May 08 - Cached
  • The ODF Alliance today greeted with scepticism Microsoft's announcement of its intention to include support for the OpenDocument Format in the first half of 2009.
Paul Merrell

Microsoft Embraces ODF, At Last [on Simon Phipps, SunMink] - 0 views

blogs.sun.com/...microsoft_embraces_odf_at_last

antitrust microsoft odf sun

shared by Paul Merrell on 23 May 08 - Cached
  • Of course, I might also reflect on the fact they are finally doing exactly what Stephe Walli said they ought to do to kill ODF. But for now, it's huge, warm congratulations on giving your customers the freedom to leave and the confidence to stay - and a small British mutter of "about bloody time".
    • Paul Merrell
      Paul Merrell on 23 May 08
       
      If one reads the linked piece from 2005 by former Microsoft exec Stephen Walli, , one may only scratch one's head over Phipps' "small British mutter of 'about bloody time.'" It seems to read as an endorsement of Microsoft killing ODF.
Jesper Lund Stocholm

OOXML is defective by design: Microsoft latest bullshit : native support of ODF in Offi... - 1 views

ooxmlisdefectivebydesign.blogspot.com/...ft-latest-bullshit-native.html

shared by Jesper Lund Stocholm on 25 Jun 08 - Cached
  • I wanted to post a quick reaction to the latest Microsoft bullshit announcement, in which they reportedly plan to "add native support for ODF 1.1". The way they put is very succinct, intentionally probably, and it opens the door for wild guesses.First of all, Microsoft is a huge Office licensing monopoly. It's so big it even surpasses Windows in sales. Any decline in Office licensing would be dramatic for Microsoft's future. With that alone, you know that any announcement from Microsoft that they are willing to interoperate with other people's software, namely applications, should be taken with a grain of salt.Here is how, with the release of Office 2007, Microsoft intends to keep their monopoly in Office licensing :
  • Likewise, since Office 2007 is not a native XML application (the internal representation is a bunch of binary structure, not XML DOM)
    • Jesper Lund Stocholm
      Jesper Lund Stocholm on 25 Jun 08
       
      Do any of you guys know if applications like OOo has a different internal object model? Is an ODF-document loaded into something equivilant to an XML DOM?
  • Gary Edwards on 25 Jun 08
     
    Stephane is right on target. This is a must read for anyone trying to understand ISO approval of OOXML, and the sudden change of mind at Microsoft to support ODF!
Gary Edwards

We've Been Had! - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...9027164

iso odef odf ooxml openwave xhtml xml

shared by Gary Edwards on 20 Jul 07 - Cached
  • There is nothing open about MOOXML, and it should have never made it to consideration as an international standard. But one has to ask, what is up with Sun? The John Bosak comment is just as much cause for concern as the fact that the nations of the world would dare consider OOXML as an international standard. All i can say is that we've been had. Sun and Microsoft have worked us royally, and only now, at the last moment, does the fog of confusion clear and we can see it all.
  • Gary Edwards on 20 Jul 07
     
    Yeah.  I said this!  And i still think ODF has what it takes to become a universal file format.  But only if the "interoperability enhancment" proposals are made part of the specification.  You can't talk your way to universal interop.   It has to go into the spec!

    OBTW, for you idiots who think i support OOXML as a standard?  You're idiots.  I support the quest for a universal file format that is totally application, platform and vendor independent.  The requirements, demands and criticisms we make of OOXML should be applied to every file format up for universal file format consideration.  Including ODF.  Including XHTML+ (XHTML, CSS3, RDF).  Including the EU IDABC "ODEF".

    The one area where i differ from most universal interoperability seekers is that i fully believe the big vendors have left open a loop hole we can exploit.  The plugin architecture is fully able to convert a big vendors application to produce our beloved but elusive universal file format. 

    This is important because the big vendors control "interoperability" by contolling the big vendor standards consortia, and, the major applications.  It's a double edged sword.

    The ubiquitous plugin architecture enables universal interop seekers to exploit the applications any way we want.  What's missing is a truly open "universal" standards process that is outside the reach of big vendors. 

    Personally i like the recent GPL3 process as a model on which to base emerging universal standards work.  Somehow the big vendors must be neutralized.  Otherwise, we;ll never see the universal inteop the world so desires.

    idiots,
    ~ge~

  • Gary Edwards on 23 Jul 07
     
    The "Backwards Compatibility" issue is all the rage at ISO, with the September vote on MS OOXML just a month away.

    Microsoft and Sun (We've Been Had!) are arguing that ISO should approve MS OOXML (Microsoft OfficeOpenXML) because OOXML offers a backwards compatibility with the legacy of existing billions of binary documents.

    This oft sighted history of Microsoft's reprehensible business practices is worth citing once again before the nations of the world go down that treacherous path towards ratifying Microsoft's proprietary systems and products as international standards.



Gary Edwards

IBM undeterred by setbacks to ODF adoption | InfoWorld | News | 2007-06-08 | By China M... - 0 views

www.infoworld.com/...etbacks-to-ODF-adoption_1.html

shared by Gary Edwards on 09 Jun 07 - Cached
  • You might think the steady defeat of bills in several U.S. states to mandate the use of free interoperable file formats might dampen the spirits of IBM, one of the prime supporters of ODF (OpenDocument Format). Far from it, said IBM's Bob Sutor, who sees the recent news as par for the course in the evolution of any open standard.
  • Gary Edwards on 09 Jun 07
     
    Thus spoke the little Dutch Boy, his finger in the dike, his confidence large.  Meanwhile, people with half a brain were heading for the high ground.  California, Texas, Massachusetts and the EU IDABC come to mind.  Hello bob!  Can you say ODEF?
Gary Edwards

State's move to open document formats still not a mass migration - 0 views

www.computerworld.com/...article.do

shared by Gary Edwards on 09 Jun 07 - Cached
  • June 08, 2007 (Computerworld) -- Only a tiny fraction of the PCs at Massachusetts government agencies are able to use the Open Document Format (ODF) for Office Applications, despite an initial deadline of this month for making sure that all state agencies could handle the file format.
  • Gary Edwards on 09 Jun 07
     
    Use of ODF remains minimal on government PCs in Massachusetts
    Eric Lai ....... June 8, 2007

    Bummer!  Do you think IBM is silent on this because they are busy cutting sweetheart deals with MS?  Are they going to hang Sun on this?  I'm sure that by next week IBM will have to respond to ODEF.   This just keeps getting better.  So in both Texas and California they wonder if it's even possible to implement ODF solutions.  No one wants to get into that hole with Massachusetts.

    ~ge~


Gary Edwards

Malte Timmermann's Blog - 0 views

blogs.sun.com/malte

shared by Gary Edwards on 14 Jul 07 - Cached
  • Q: Why doesn't it support Office 2007?A: Well, basically, it does, but there is an issue in Word's 2007 Filter API handling. You can save to ODF, but when you try to open ODF, Word ignores the installed filters and tries to open with it's own filters. Of course Word can't, so you get an error message "The Office Open XML file <name> cannot be opened because there are problems with the content". This even happens if you explicitly select the ODF filter! I hope Microsoft will fix this issue with the next service pack. If not, we will work around this bug by doing the same kind of integration like in PowerPoint and Excel.
  • Gary Edwards on 14 Jul 07
     
    The reason da Vinci was broke in Office 2007
Gary Edwards

Microsoft Support for ODF - the Q&A - Google Docs & Spreadsheets - 0 views

docs.google.com/Doc

shared by Gary Edwards on 21 Jun 07 - Cached
  • Hi Gary,I am a technology journalist with Asia's ONLY Linux-focused magazine, LINUX For You. I am working on a story revolving the recent development of Microsoft supporting ODF Format. I want to understand the equation of the whole development, would you please help me understand: Q1. What do you think drove Microsoft to support the ODF format?
  • Gary Edwards on 21 Jun 07
     
    This is the full response to Swapnil's seven questions.  It's long.  But we hold back nothing!  Thanks again to Marbux.  He is a peach!
Gary Edwards

Choice - 0 views

www.microsoft.com/...userchoice.mspx

shared by Gary Edwards on 20 Jun 07 - Cached
  • With ISO/IEC having standardized Open Document Format (ODF) 1.0 and considering standardizing Ecma Office Open XML (Open XML), there is a lot of public discussion about document formats and whether the world should begin to focus on only one format or continue to see multiple formats developed and used over time. Microsoft believes that users should be able to choose among formats and pick the one that best meets their needs. We also believe in encouraging the continued evolution of computing and data formats. And we support the ratification of Open XML in ISO/IEC. There are several reasons for these views:
  • Gary Edwards on 20 Jun 07
     
    This the infamous Microsoft letter that many have misconstrued as an announcement of support for OpenDocument.  Only in a Microsoft universe can the statement, "We're not going to attack ODF" be taken as Micrsoft support for ODF.
Gary Edwards

Universal Interoperability Framework for OpenDocument - 0 views

docs.google.com/Doc

cdf interop interoperability iso odef odf opendocument

shared by Gary Edwards on 27 Sep 07 - Cached
  • SUMMARY: The OpenDocument Foundation proposes that the OASIS Office TC begin now to create an interoperability framework for inclusion in OpenDocument v. 1.2. This document, one of a series of planned proposals, proposes first steps towards a comprehensive interoperability framework and OpenDocument conformance requirements.  This proposal is designed to bring ODF v. 1.2 into compliance with current ISO Interoperability Requirements.
  • Gary Edwards on 27 Sep 07
     
    The OpenDocument Foundation "Universal Interoperability Framework" Proposal has not been submitted to the OASIS ODF TC as of this bookmarking.  But this version is complete except for a closing summation.
Gary Edwards

Open Malaysia: Rick Jelliffe - myths debunked? - 0 views

www.openmalaysiablog.com/...rick_jelliffe_m.html

shared by Gary Edwards on 17 Jun 07 - Cached
  • Additionally, ODF was not ratified with SVG, MathML, XLink, Zip and other W3C standards all together at the same time. Instead the prior W3C standards were already well established and approved in their own right and in their own time with the relevant experts of their specific domains vetting it. MSOOXML also incorporates proposed "standards" which failed in the marketplace and now is offered a "backdoor" to standardisation process by piggy backing this nebulous specification. (See VML vs SVG, and MathML vs Microsoft Office MathML) So there is a myth being built that ODF and its constituent parts are just as large as MSOOXML, and therefore MSOOXML is OK. I for one would rather MSOOXML be even larger; to cater for unknown tags like "lineWrapLikeWord6" or a Macro specification. However what troubles me is that the special relationship between Ecma and ISO should be abused with the fast tracking of this large specification.
  • Gary Edwards on 17 Jun 07
     
    Yoon Kit brings up an interesting point about the ISO consideration of MSOOXML (Ecma 376);  ISO approval of MSOOXML would backdoor a good many MS proprietary technologies that compete directly with W3C XML standards.

    YK gives the example of MS VML, which competes with the W3C SVG standard used by ODF.  He could have also cited that legacy versions of MSOffice (98-2003) make use of VML as the default graphic format, while MSOffice 2003 9with XML plugin) and MSOffice 2007 (by default) implements DrawingML as the replacement for VML. 

    So, would ISO approval of Ecma 376 backdoor VML and DrawingML in as "standards"?  Or MSOffice MathML?   One has to wonder since they are essential to MSOOXML.

Gary Edwards

Application Development Trends - TeamDrive Embraces ODF and OpenOffice.org - 0 views

www.adtmag.com/article.aspx

collaboration odf

shared by Gary Edwards on 25 Sep 07 - Cached
  • Gary Edwards on 25 Sep 07
     
    Primesharing has announced an OpenOffice - ODF collaboration service.
Gary Edwards

Calling all black helicopters! This is a red alert. The OpenDocument Foundation suspe... - 0 views

boycottnovell.com/...ndocument-foundation-civil-war

odf ooxml opendocument opendocument-foundation openxml

shared by Gary Edwards on 07 Feb 08 - Cached
  • Be aware that Gary Edwards and Marbux (of the organisation formerly known as “The OpenDocument Foundation” [1, 2]) have begun submitting links to their new site. They use Digg where they post elaborate comments about a decoy, a distraction. They comment on each other’s submissions, which are barely receiving any attention at all. The OpenDocument Foundation’s Web site has meanwhile become a link farm (inactive) with many inbound links. This is not very ordinary. “At times, however, new people are introduced to intervene and create tensions, misunderstandings, and civil wars.”
  • Gary Edwards on 07 Feb 08
     
    Yo Marbux! Fire up the Black Hawk! They want us. They need us. Without the big bad bogey man, lurkign in the shadows, secretly conspiring against them, who will they blame their failures on?
Gary Edwards

OOXML-ODF: The Harmonization Hope Chest | Orcmid's Lair - 0 views

orcmid.com/...f-harmonization-hope-chest.asp

shared by Gary Edwards on 09 Feb 08 - Cached
  • 4. The Reality in the Punchbowl Meanwhile, Sam Hiser offers a different impression of the DIN effort [4]: "The ODF-to-OOXML harmonization effort being hosted by the German standards group, DIN, is Europe's best effort to resolve our Mexican Standoff between Microsoft, Sun and IBM. Even though harmonization is laughably complex and will not work unless the applications are harmonized too, the best and brightest of Germany are left to hope for success."  [emphasis mine: dh] Although the mission of the German effort is translation (Übersetzung), not harmonization, I find there is a very important point that is not made often enough:  People write, read, and edit office documents with little, if any, understanding of the particular format that makes them persistent in digital form.  The XML-based open formats do not change that.   People adapt to the software/device they are using by trial and error.  We train ourselves to obtain the visible results that we want.  Different people obtain superficially similar results by quite different means.   Even when someone has gone to the trouble to create style sheets, forms, macros, templates and other format-impacting aids, it is very loosey-goosey in practice.  And it still does not require paying attention to the file format.  
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