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Paul Merrell

Microsoft offers Office 2010 file format 'ballot' to stop EU antitrust probe - 0 views

  • Paul Merrell
     
    Microsoft's proposed undertaking for resolving the ECIS complaint to the European Commission regarding its office productivity software can be downloaded from this linked web page. I've given it a quick skim. Didn't see anything in it for anyone but competing big vendors. E.g., no profiling of data formats for interop of less and more featureful implementations, no round-tripping provisions. Still, some major concessions offered.
Gary Edwards

Is ODF the new RTF or the new .DOC? Can it be both? Do we need either? - O'Reilly Broadcast... - 0 views

  • Unless governments and other stakeholders can get beyond the
    narrow view of documents and interoperability as merely being exchanging data
    from one similar application to another, and move towards the view that
    documents and web resources need to be end points on the same interoperable
    spectrum, we are selling ourselves short.



    It is here that standards bodies should be more help: but I
    don't know that they can be unless there is a stronger commitment to supporting
    each others' visions better. W3C's mission statement is concerned with bringing
    the web to its full potential, and W3C have traditionally used this to justify shying
    away from old-fashioned compound file-based issues: the lack of standards for
    the *SP (JSP, ASP, PHP) class of documents is a symptom of this, and it is
    notable that much of XML's uptake came because it did take care of practical
    production issues (i.e. issues pertaining to the document as it existed before
    being made available as a resource —PIs
    and entities—and after
    it had been retrieved—character
    encodings.) The industry consortia such as ECMA and OASIS are organized
    around interest groups on particular standards, which makes it easy to fob off
    discussion of interoperability. And even ISO, where the availability are
    topic-based working groups with very broad interests should provide a more
    workable home for this kind of effort, have a strong disinclination to seek out
    work that involves liaison with other standards groups: satisfying two sets of
    procedures and fitting in with two sets of deadlines and timetables can be
    impractical and disenfranchising for volunteers and small-business/academic experts.

  • Gary Edwards
     
    Jon Bosak, who founded the XML and ODF efforts among many other achievements, recently wrote an article concerning the position of ODF, Open XML and PDF Jon's public writings are rare, well-considered and always of interest. As with other Sun-affiliated people in recent times, Jon has been exemplary in that even though he has a side, he does not take sides. I think I can agree with much of what he says, though I would note Don't forget about HTML.
Gary Edwards

The better Office alternative: SoftMaker Office bests OpenOffice.org ( - Software ) - 0 views

shared by Gary Edwards on 30 Jun 09 - Snapshot
  • Frankly, from Microsoft's perspective, the danger may have been overstated. Though the free open source crowd talks a good fight, the truth is that they keep missing the real target. Instead of investing in new features that nobody will use, the team behind OpenOffice should take a page from the SoftMaker playbook and focus on interoperability first. Until OpenOffice works out its import/export filter issues, it'll never be taken seriously as a Microsoft alternative.


    More troubling (for Microsoft) is the challenge from the SoftMaker camp. These folks have gotten the file-format compatibility issue licked, and this gives them the freedom to focus on building out their product's already respectable feature set. I wouldn't be surprised if SoftMaker got gobbled up by a major enterprise player in the near, thus creating a viable third way for IT shops seeking to kick the Redmond habit.

    • Gary Edwards
       
      This quote is an excerpt from the article :)
  • Gary Edwards
     
    Finally! Someone who gets it. For an office suite to be considered as an alternative to MSOffice, it must be designed with multiple levels of compatibility. It's not just that the "feature sets" that must be comparable. The guts of the suite must be compatible at both the file format level, and the environment level.

    Randall put's it this way; "It's the ecosystem stupid".

    The reason ODF failed in Massachusetts is that neither OpenOffice nor OpenOffice ODF are designed to be compatible with legacy and existing MSOffice applications, binary formats, and, the MSOffice productivity environment. Instead, OOo and OOo-ODF are designed to be competitively comparable.

    As an alternative to MSOffice, OpenOffice and OpenOffice ODF cannot fit into existing MSOffice workgroups and producitivity environments. Because it s was not designed to be compatible, OOo demands that the environment be replaced, rebuilt and re-engineered. Making OOo and OOo-ODF costly and disruptive to critical day-to-day business processes.

    The lesson of Massachusetts is simple; compatibility matters. Conversion of workgroup/workflow documents from the MSOffice productivity environment to OpenOffice ODF will break those documents at two levels: fidelity and embedded "ecosystem" logic.

    Fidelity is what most end-users point to since that's the aspect of the document conversion they can see. However, it's what they can't see that is the show stopper. The hidden side of workgroup/workflow documents is embedded logic that includes scripts, macros, formulas, OLE, data bindings, security settings, application specific settings, and productivity environment settings. Breaks these aspects of the document, and you stop important business processes bound to the MSOffice productivity environment.

    There is no such thing as an OpenOffice productivity environment designed to be a compatible alternative to the MSOffice productivity environment.

    Another lesson from Massach
Paul Merrell

Gray Matter : Compatibility Pack for Open XML passes 100 million downloads - 0 views

  • Paul Merrell
     
    Also includes stats in table form indicating that according to Google Search OOXML documents now outnumber ODF documents on the Web, for word processor documents, spreadsheet documents, and presentation documents.
Paul Merrell

Lotus Symphony now reads Office 2007 documents - 0 views



  • IBM today announced the release of Lotus Symphony 1.3, an update to its year-old free productivity suite that for the first time lets users import files saved in Microsoft Office 2007's native Office Open XML (OOXML) document format.
Paul Merrell

untitled - 0 views

  • Most (quality) specifications provide clear instructions using
    those magic words SHALL, SHALL NOT, and MAY where those words have
    a defined meaning for an implementor. Paragraphs are clearly
    identified as either normative or informative. That way an
    implementor knows what they must and may implement to claim
    conformance against a specification. This approach has been well
    established over time as a sensible way for spec writers and
    implementors to work
  • Most (quality) specifications provide clear instructions using
    those magic words SHALL, SHALL NOT, and MAY where those words have
    a defined meaning for an implementor. Paragraphs are clearly
    identified as either normative or informative. That way an
    implementor knows what they must and may implement to claim
    conformance against a specification. This approach has been well
    established over time as a sensible way for spec writers and
    implementors to work




    That is the way quality specifications are written. For
    example, ISO/IEC's JTC 1
    Directives
    (link to PDF) requires that international standards
    designed for interoperability "specify clearly and unambiguously
    the conformity requirements that are essential to achieve the
    interoperability."





    With that clarity, conformance is testable and can provide
    confidence of interoperability. A suite of tests may be developed
    and applied to an implementation to determine which tests pass,
    which fail, and hence arrive at an objective pronouncement on
    conformance of an implementation against the entirety of the
    specification.

  • In a quality specification, it should be feasible to select a
    normative paragraph, identify a conformance test for it, and make
    a clear statement that this test proves that an implementation
    meets (or fails to meet) that requirement. Call it a test plan:
    define the tests (test specification), define the expected set of
    results, and define what constitutes a "pass" of each test that
    establishes conformance. The plan then provides the matrix of test
    spec against requirement. Simple.
  • ...4 more annotations...
  • Rob Weir of IBM chaired (apology for the misuse of that last
    word) the formation list and then simply announced what the
    charter would be rather than seeking consensus among the list
    participants. As part of this process before that charter was
    produced and while I still naively believed that consensus was a
    goal, I sat down with ODF 1.1 and did a paragraph-by-paragraph
    review for testability. The numbers were quite revealing. I
    completely reviewed only the first four major sections and found
    very few clear requirements.




    The majority were mere statements with no normative language
    used to identify what was required or optional. Implementors would
    have to make their own interpretation.

  • It's ironic that the chair viewed as good news the fact that
    there were far fewer testable paragraphs than he had predicted. But
    his prediction of 10,000 test cases is probably far closer to how
    many testable paragraphs there should be; my counts were actually
    bad news.
  • All of the above leads to the interesting question of just how
    the chair expects to accomplish much that is useful in regard to ODF
    conformance testing before the specification is amended to tighten
    up the language and add clear requirements. The syntax conformity is
    already handled by validation against the schema, but the semantics
    are woefully under-specified.
  • Summary: ODF 1.1 isn't verifiable as a specification. From a
    fairly cursory review of the latest draft, ODF 1.2 will follow the
    same path. With OASIS now being more demanding regarding conformance
    requirements on every specification and with ISO/IEC taking a closer
    interest in liaison with the ODF TC, I find it hard to see how the
    ODF TC co-chairs can maintain this view toward verification.
Gary Edwards

Google's Microsoft Fight Starts With Smartphones | BNET Technology Blog | BNET - 0 views

  • Gary Edwards
     
    .... "I recently described how Google's Wave, a collaboration tool based on the new HTML 5 standard, demonstrated the potential for Web applications to unglue Microsoft's hold on customers. My post quoted Gary Edwards, the former president of the Open Document Foundation, a first-hand witness to the failed attempt by Massachusetts to dump Microsoft and as experienced a hand at Microsoft-tilting as anyone I know......"
Jesper Lund Stocholm

Doug Mahugh : Standards-Based Interoperability - 0 views

  • Whether this is something that Microsoft is supposed to fix, as in Jomar Silva's view, is not that obvious to me.
    • Jesper Lund Stocholm
       
      My point exactly ...
Jesper Lund Stocholm

Balance of interest ~= Broader representation - O'Reilly Broadcast - 0 views

  • But I fully understand and expect that a specification for document formats will be primarily created by those vendors who are most interested, by commercial motivation, in selling products that use that standard. This is a good thing, indeed an essential thing, since that in a single shot brings together the expertise and IP rights needed to create such a standard.
    • Jesper Lund Stocholm
       
      I totally agree, Rob :o)
Paul Merrell

The No. 4 Reason to Move to Open Source is the Reduced Cost - 0 views

  • Open source enterprise products are ready to support your mission critical applications, in the operating system area there's Solaris, Linux, in the middleware area there's Glassfish, JBoss, in the database area there's MySQL, PostgreSQL and even in the desktop area...which has been lagging behind in open source, but is starting to gain some ground with over 220 Million OpenOffice users.
  • Paul Merrell
     
    Sun claims there are 220 million OpenOffice.org users.
Graham Perrin

ODF Alliance Weblog: Microsoft's ODF Support Falls Short - 0 views

  • Microsoft’s ODF Support Falls Short
  • some of the so-called ‘plug-ins’ were revealed to provide better support for ODF than the recently released Microsoft Office 2007 SP2
  • plug-ins for Microsoft Office written by third parties were revealed to provide better support for ODF than the recently released Microsoft Office 2007 SP2
  • ...3 more annotations...
  • Sun Plug-In 3.0
  • SourceForge “OpenXML/ODF Translator Add-in for Office
  • fail when using the “built-in” support provided by Office 2007 SP2
Paul Merrell

Sun Microsystems Snookers UNESCO - 0 views

  • The agreement is part of UNESCO’s ongoing effort to improve digital
    inclusion globally by partnering with the private sector. Under its
    terms, Sun Microsystems and UNESCO will promote the use of open source
    technologies, including OpenOffice.org and OpenDocument Format (ODF)
    standard, as a low-cost way to improve education with universal access
    to information and knowledge. They will also support the development of
    open and inclusive knowledge societies in developing and emerging
    economies.
  • Paul Merrell
     
    Now it's "universal access to information and knowledge" via the OpenDocument Format? Is there no one at UNESCO who has the brains to check out vendor claims before buying into them? ODF is a standard in name only, without any specification of the conformity requirements essential to achieve interoperability. How a specification may be described as "open" when the information needed to implement it is missing has to rank up there in the top 10 of appeals to ignorance.
Paul Merrell

Rob Weir is caught in a deceit - 0 views

  • It seems you like to ignore requirements in order to defend Microsoft

  • Do you get paid to spread FUD like this, or is it merely a dilettantish pursuit?
  • I am unable to even imagine that you would be ignorant of basic standards terminology. So why do you persist in intentionally misleading your readers?
  • ...2 more annotations...
  • But at all relevant times you knew that you could not respond on the merits if Alex took the time to write the same analysis I did. I call foul.

    Foul 1: You accused Alex of ignorance and deceit.
    Foul 2: You had no informed basis for those insults.
    Foul 3: You knew you had no informed basis for your insults.
    Foul 4: You have put me to the work of repeating the conversation we already had.

    Shame on you, Rob Weir. The position you took was unprincipled. You are the one who has intentionally misled Alex's readers. You are caught.

    If you are a principled person, you will immediately retract your insults and apologize to Alex Brown for your deceit in as public a manner as you inflicted your deceit. If you do not do so, the undeniable record lies here of a man who is not man enough to take responsibility for his wrongs and apologize.
  • Ah, Marbux, what circus is complete without the clowns?
Graham Perrin

Orcmid's Lair: Microsoft ODF Interoperability Workshop - 0 views

  • 2008-08
  • Microsoft's first built-in support
  • approach to adding Open Document Format support directly into Office 2007
  • ...20 more annotations...
  • the balancing act that Office-ODF interoperability requires
  • interaction with the ODF community
  • I saw no down side
  • all ODF TC members who desired to come had a place
  • absence of non-disclosure agreements
  • a serious, open conversation is beginning
  • five guiding principles that govern ODF support in Word, Excel, and PowerPoint
  • priorities that apply in making trade-offs
  • balancing of different interests: standards groups, corporations, institutions, government agencies, regulatory bodies, and general users
  • Balancing of competing considerations is not trivial
  • current OpenOffice.org implementations fail to check whether a formula conforms to its own extension
  • the central feature of typical document processing software is the internal, in-memory representation of the software's document model
  • features may be lost on output
  • features may be lost on input
  • rely on features that succeed with the internal representation
  • degraded or lost entirely in the chosen external representation
  • losing some of them when saving
  • Florian Reuter argued an interesting gracefully-failing extension technique that, on reflection, I believe could avoid breaking changes against earlier ODF specifications of namespaces, their elements and their attributes too
    • Graham Perrin
       
      I'd like to learn more about this.
  • an application being quite friendly with its own ODF but not with that of other significant implementations
  • discussions did not arrive at conclusions
  • Graham Perrin
     
    I read this more than a year after the event but still, it's interesting.
Graham Perrin

Doug Mahugh : Guiding principles for Office's ODF implementation - 0 views

Graham Perrin

Doug Mahugh : 1 + 2 = 1? - 0 views

Graham Perrin

Where is there an end of it? | Notes on Document Conformance and Portability #3 - 0 views

  • a calm look at some of the issues
    • Graham Perrin
       
      Still, not all of the subsequent comments are calm…
  • Microsoft’s implementation decision
  • on the face of it
  • ...21 more annotations...
  • an implementation of ODF which does not interoperate with other available implementations
  • some real problems with basic spreadsheet interoperability among ODF products using undocumented extensions
  • abandoning the “convention”
  • more or less
  • these ODF implementations have limited interoperability
  • unsafe for any mission-critical data
  • ODF implementations can actually cut it,
  • legacy support as an option
  • this interoperability fiasco has been allowed to happen within the context of a standard
  • behave better
  • in the interests of the users
  • good news
  • work is underway to fix this problem: ODF 1.2
  • people may disagree in good faith
  • does not, in fact, conform
  • Rob’s statement that “SP2's implementation
  • is mistaken on this point
  • no grounds for complacency about the sufficiency of the ODF specification
  • keen to see defects, such as conformance loopholes, fixed in the next published ODF standard
  • I urge all other true supporters to read the drafts and give feedback to make ODF better for the benefit of everyone
  • Microsoft is the only one of seven main ODF implementations that fail to achieve interoperability in ODF formulas
Graham Perrin

Doug Mahugh : Working with ODF in Word 2007 SP2 - 0 views

  • ODF in Word 2007 SP2
  • Service Pack 2 for Office 2007
  • You can make ODF the default
  • ...18 more annotations...
  • ODF can’t represent 100% of the things we can do in Word
  • differences between the default line-spacing
  • and a flow-oriented layout
  • ODF or Open XML
  • work well for dynamic editing
  • flow-oriented format during document authoring and editing
  • fixed-layout format for published documents
  • differences in Word and OpenOffice’s default styling for hyperlinks
  • longer in OpenOffice
  • text-wrap margins around the inserted image also differ
  • decided to not implement tracked changes
  • indents were incorrect
  • Office SP2 .docx to .odt is the best
  • OOo developers
  • further improvements planned/started for 3.2
  • version 3.1 will solve several problems
  • Update on ODF Spreadsheet Interoperability
  • spreadsheets that can be manipulated with MS Office ONLY
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