Skip to main content

Diigo Home
Home/ Groups/ IBM: Standards and Double Standards
Paul Merrell

How Microsoft Ratted Itself Out Of Office | BNET Technology Blog | BNET - 0 views

  • Also, you have the problem that OOXML does not define details like scripts and macros, the very essence of integrating documents with business processes. So although you may now know how Office stores bold and italics, but these are not exactly the crown jewels of Office compatibility.
  • Paul Merrell
     
    Here, IBM's Rob Weir takes OOXML to task for not specifying scripts and macros. But nary a mention of the fact that OpenDocument suffers from the same weakness. Yet another IBM double standard. He also tacks on an ad hominem attack against Gary Edwards, in lieu of addressing the merits of what Edwards said.
Paul Merrell

Groklaw - Digging for Truth - 0 views

  • As for me, I've never denied who I work for, what my job is and what my motives

    are. I don't pretend to be neutral. I think when presented with market abuses

    like we see from Microsoft, being neutral is not a respectable position. My

    only weapons are facts and logic. I would not be effective if I were not known

    to be accurate and trustworthy.
  • Paul Merrell
     
    In the comments on Groklaw to its republication of his ODF Lies and Whispers article, IBM's Rob Weir portrays himself as being "accurate and trustworthy." Yet on this page of Alex Brown's blog that rebuts his Lies and Whispers article, Weir has been caught lying in the comments section and his Lies and Whispers article has dissembled as Weir ducks, bobs, and weaves rather offering any persuasive evidence of his article's truth. http://www.adjb.net/post/No-one-supports-ISO-ODF-today.aspx
Paul Merrell

An Antic Disposition: ODF Lies and Whispers - 0 views

  • This certainly is an interesting statement. There is nothing I can point to that is false here. Everything here is 100% accurate. However, it seems to be reckless in how it neglects the most relevant facts, namely that the proposals did not make it into ODF 1.2 at Microsoft's sole election. It is as if Lee Harvey Oswald had written a note: "Went to Dallas and saw a parade today. Tried to see a movie, but had to leave early. Heard later on the radio that the President was shot". This would have been 100% accurate as well, but not the "whole truth".
  • Ask the questions in public places and seek a public, on-the-record response. More people are willing to lie than face of consequences of being caught lying. That is the ultimate weakness of lies. They cannot stand the light of public exposure. Sunlight is the best antiseptic.
  • Paul Merrell
     
    Here we find IBM's Rob Weir condemning less than the "whole truth," advocating public exposure as the best remedy for lies, and observing that "[m]ore people are willing to lie than face of [sic] consequences of being caught lying." These statements may be usefully contrasted with Weir's actual practice in relevant regard. See e.g., the dismantling of a key fact in his same article in the blog post and comments here. http://www.adjb.net/post/No-one-supports-ISO-ODF-today.aspx Also notice there just how far Weir goes to avoid telling the "whole truth" in his own comments.
Paul Merrell

The conspiracy to save ODF from being so crappy - O'Reilly Broadcast - 0 views

  • I hope you will verify these facts, if needed, and correct your misstatements regarding OASIS process and the ODF's TC's work. Then you can go back to telling us again how you and Alex are not spreading lies about ODF.



    -Rob

  • Paul Merrell
     
    Here we learn two things about IBM's Rob Weir. First, score another ad hominem attack for him because of his innuendo suggesting that Rick Jelliffe and Alex Brown are liars. Second, we learn that Mr. Weir expects a retraction to be made when inaccurate statements are brought to a blog author's attention. Having been recently outed for rewriting history to call Alex Brown and Wikipedia names and having confessed to silently editing his blog in relevant regard, will Mr. Weir correct his own blog article? See http://www.adjb.net/post/No-one-supports-ISO-ODF-today.aspx and Weir's confession in the comments on that page. Or are retractions yet another case of an IBM double standard?
Paul Merrell

No one supports ISO ODF today? - 0 views

  • In particular, Rob takes issue with a statement that he condemns as “Microsoft FUD […] laundered via intermediaries”:



    There is no software that currently implements ODF as approved by the ISO


    Now Rob Weir is a great blogger, a much-praised committee chair, and somebody who can, on occasion, fearlessly produce the blunt truth like a rabbit from a hat. For this reason, I know his blog entry, “Toy Soldiers” of July 2008 has enjoyed quite some exposure in standards meetings around the world, most particularly for its assertions about ODF. He wrote:




  • No one supports ODF 1.0 today. All of the major vendors have moved on to ODF 1.1, and will be moving on to ODF 1.2 soon.
  • No one supports OOXML 1.0 today, not even Microsoft.
  • No one supports interoperability via translation, not Sun in their Plugin, not Novell in their OOXML support, and not Microsoft in their announced ODF support in Office 2007 SP2.
  • So, far from being “Microsoft FUD”, the idea that “No one supports ODF 1.0” is in fact Rob Weir’s own statement. And it was taken up and repeated by Andy Updegrove, Groklaw and Boycott Novell, those well-known vehicles of Microsoft’s corporate will.



    Today however, this appears to have become an inconvenient truth. The rabbit that was pulled out of the hat in the interest of last summer’s spin, now needs to be put into the boiler. Consequently we find Rob’s blog entry of July 2008 has been silently amended so that it now states:




  • Few applications today support exclusively ODF 1.0 and only ODF 1.0. Most of the major vendors also support ODF 1.1, one (OpenOffice 3.x), now supports draft ODF 1.2 as well.
  • No one supports OOXML 1.0 today, not even Microsoft.
  • No one supports interoperability via translation, not Sun in their Plugin, not Novell in their OOXML support, and not Microsoft in their announced ODF support in Office 2007 SP2.
  • The pertinent change is to item 1 on this list, which now has a weasel-worded (and tellingly tautological) assertion that might make the unsuspecting reader think that ODF 1.0 was somehow supported by the major vendors. Well, is it? Who is right, the Rob Weir of 2008 or the Rob Weir of 2009? Maybe I’ve missed something, but personally I’m unaware of an upsurge in ODF 1.0 support during the last 11 months. My money is on the former Rob being right here.
  • ...2 more annotations...
  • As a general rule, when making substantive retrospective changes to blog entries, especially controversial blog entries, it is honest dealing to draw attention to this by striking-through removed text and prominently labelling the new text as “updated”. Failing to do this can lead to the suspicion that an attempt to re-write history is underway …
  • You have the unique opportunity now to prove wrong my assertion, and the widespread belief, that you are a Microsoft lackey.
  • Paul Merrell

    An Antic Disposition: Those who forget Santayana... - 0 views

    • Those who control the exchange format, can control interoperability and turn it on or off like a water faucet to meet their business objectives.
    • Paul Merrell
       
      Here we learn that when it comes to OOXML IBM's Rob Weir says that it is those in control of the data formats who control interoperability. But one may usefully juxtapose that view with Weir's statements that it's Microsoft's fault for breaking interoperability in its implementation of ODF 1.1 formulas. Weir had it right the first time; it's those who control the data formats who control interoperability. And that places the responsibility for the ODF 1.1 interop mess squarely at the feet of the IBM and Sun-dominated ODF TC. So we have yet another IBM double standard. One truth when it's OOXML being discussed but its opposite when it is ODF subjected to examination.
    Paul Merrell

    Balance of interest ~= Broader representation - O'Reilly Broadcast - 0 views

    • Rick, on the other hand, by my count, with his various calls for greater "balance", has racked up the impressive total of zero new members. Standards activist? Certainly not an effective one.
    • Paul Merrell
       
      Rob Weir racks up another ad hominem attack, this time against Rick Jelliffe.
    Paul Merrell

    When Did IBM Know? And Why That Matters ... | Universal Interoperability Council - 0 views

    • When did IBM learn that Microsoft would not implement Excel spreadsheet formulas in OpenDocument Formats ("ODF") v. 1.1 the same way OpenOffice.org does? And why does that timing matter?
    • Why then did IBM wait nearly seven months, until May 3, 2009 — after Microsoft's ODF 1.1 native support was coded in Office 2007 SP2 — to mount the Big Blue attack on Microsoft's ODF 1.1 implementation of formulas?
    • If the IBM goal were in fact interoperability via ODF 1.1 between Microsoft Office and other ODF implementations, would it not have been more timely for IBM to raise its formula stink before the Office 2007 ODF support was coded so that Microsoft management might have been persuaded to do formulas as OpenOffice.org does, back when there was still time to influence the decision?
    • ...1 more annotation...
    • One might reasonably infer from such circumstances that ODF interoperability was far less important to IBM than was preserving its ability to attack the quality of Microsoft's ODF support after it was hard-coded. Or put another way, IBM appears in this instance to be more committed to double standards than to ODF interoperability.
    Paul Merrell

    On the scalability of a standard - time for a 'Weirotron' - 0 views

    • After the drama of the initial Office 2007 SP2 ODF support was initiated by Rob Weir, related arguments spilled out all over the place.  I got involved in a few places, but then left it alone whilst I got on with some productive work.  There’s only so many ways you can say “it’s does not exist in the standard – admit it, fix it and move on”.
    • I was always under the impression that it was good practice for something that was invalid against the schema to be deemed non-conformant.  Rob shows just what a absolute noob I am to assume that.
    • Now if Alex Brown and various other highly qualified commenters can misread the ODF specification so heinously, needing the expert advice from the ODF Technical Committee Chair himself to put them right, what chance do lowly developers have?


      It appears from this there is no chance that any developer will be able to interpret the specification properly, since only Rob Weir (and perhaps the folks working on OpenOffice) has the intellectual capacity to navigate this ball of semantic string. 

    • ...1 more annotation...
    • So, the solution to this is clear – we need to implement Rob Weir as a web service, a Weirotron if you like. That way, everyone can query the Weirotron and get back the definitive answer to any ODF question, without having to deal with the obviously labyrinthine spec that has bamboozled so many leading XML experts.


      In addition, the Weirotron could help solve those pesky interoperability issues that stem from some areas that ODF relies on the OpenOffice source code for, like Formulas, and areas where the spec is a bit light, so to speak, like Change Tracking etc.  I’m sure that this would really assist Microsoft and many other struggling developers in implementing support for ODF (or rather the Weir-approved cod-ODF) correctly, with the inherent blessing of the ODF TC Chair.

    • Paul Merrell
       
      Gareth Horton offers a satirical view of IBMer Rob Weir's recent arguments but captures the dilemma Weir's arguments put developers in.
    Paul Merrell

    An Antic Disposition: Compatibility According to Humpty Dumpty - 0 views

    • But none of that is really 100% compatibility with legacy anything. That is really just saying that OOXML is compatible with code that Microsoft is writing months after OOXML was standardized by Ecma. But the qualities of the format were set the day the standard was approved by Ecma. The standard does not gain capabilities by Microsoft writing code. Microsoft applications may gain capabilities, but the standard is what it is, and is as compatible as it is going to get the day it was standardized. If OOXML was really compatible with legacy binary formats then they would work without requiring code changes or customer upgrades.
    • Paul Merrell
       
      In 2007, IBM's Rob Weir roundly criticized OOXML because the principle justification for having a largely duplicative international standard was compatibility with the billions of extant legacy Microsoft Office documents in binary formats, yet the specifications for the binary formats were not included in the OOXML specification.

      Just how committed IBM management was to that position may be seen in the fact that IBM later instigated an antitrust investigation of Microsoft Office by the E.U.'s DG Competition through the European Committee on Interoperable Systems, alleging monopoly abuse by Microsoft on the same grounds, an investigation still ongoing. \n\nIn this blog post comment, IBM's Rob Weir takes a hard line position that the sufficiency of the OOXML standard's specificity must be determined on the basis of what is stated in the standard itself, as opposed to Microsoft's subsequent recoding of Office to remove compatibility defects between Microsoft's implementation of OOXML and the binary formats.\n\nThe quoted passage may be usefully compared to later IBM arguments and actions in regard to the OpenDocument.standard that will be included in later bookmarks. For example, Weir has been unyielding that vendor-defined extensions to the ODF standard must be classified as conformant in ODF 1.2, yet their specifications are definitionally not part of the ODF specification. As another example, in 2009 Weir attacked Microsoft for having implemented ODF 1.1 using formula markup different from that used by OOo, despite ODF 1.1's lack of specifications for spreadsheet formulas. Weir's rationale: that vendors must collaborate to code around holes in the standard. He came very close to arguing that data gaps in a standard are irrelevant. See e.g., http://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/05/battle-for-odf-interoperability.html \n\nHypothesis: IBM's treats ODF as a double standard rather than a standard. What IBM argues in effect is that what is required for OOXML does not apply
    Paul Merrell

    Fallacy: Ad Hominem - 0 views

    • Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means
      "against the man" or "against the person."

      An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or
      argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically,
      this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character
      of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made
      (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim
      or
      argument the person in question is making (or presenting).

    • Paul Merrell
       
      The ad hominem fallacy is a tactic frequently employed by IBM and its followers, most notably by Rob Weir, against those who disagree with IBM's positions and goals. Those who advocate for repairing the badly broken ODF standard or prepare bug reports on that standard are among the most frequently targeted victims of IBM's ad hominem fallacy attacks.
    • Paul Merrell
       
      As will be seen in other bookmarks, many IBM staffers' arguments relevant to office document format specifications have been based on variations of the ad hominem fallacy, more commonly known as the "personal attack." .
    Paul Merrell

    IBM's Rob Weir on the ad hominem fallacy - 0 views

    • Ah, and there is the source of your confusion. Excel 2007 SP2 does not write

      out document that conform to the ODF 1.1 standard.
    • I lay out the facts, the logic and then draw

      conclusions. I put my reputation on the line in every post. You could dispute

      the facts I present. You could argue against my logic if you wish. But you

      have done neither. You merely resort to ad hominen attacks. I'll take that as

      an expression of your frustration at not finding a hole in my argument.
    • Paul Merrell
       
      Here, we learn that Rob Weir understands that ad hominem attacks are usually a fallacy, a way of changing the subject rather than addressing the merits of what was said. We may therefore deduce that when Rob Weir employs the ad hominem attack himself, he does so knowing that he is arguing a fallacy.
    Paul Merrell

    Notes on Document Conformance and Portability #4 - 0 views

    • It seems you like to ignore requirements in order to defend Microsoft

    • Do you get paid to spread FUD like this, or is it merely a dilettantish pursuit?
    • I am unable to even imagine that you would be ignorant of basic standards terminology. So why do you persist in intentionally misleading your readers?
    • ...2 more annotations...
    • But at all relevant times you knew that you could not respond on the merits if Alex took the time to write the same analysis I did. I call foul.

      Foul 1: You accused Alex of ignorance and deceit.
      Foul 2: You had no informed basis for those insults.
      Foul 3: You knew you had no informed basis for your insults.
      Foul 4: You have put me to the work of repeating the conversation we already had.

      Shame on you, Rob Weir. The position you took was unprincipled. You are the one who has intentionally misled Alex's readers. You are caught.

      If you are a principled person, you will immediately retract your insults and apologize to Alex Brown for your deceit in as public a manner as you inflicted your deceit. If you do not do so, the undeniable record lies here of a man who is not man enough to take responsibility for his wrongs and apologize.
    • Ah, Marbux, what circus is complete without the clowns?
    • Paul Merrell
       
      Here on a single page, we see several Rob Weir ad hominem attacks, including his ad hominem circumstantial innuendo suggesting that Alex Bown's motive in writing a bug report is to defend Microsoft's implementation of ODF. There is also a notable accusation that Brown is intentionally misleading his readers, which attacks Brown's honesty.
    Paul Merrell

    Fallacy: Appeal to Belief - 0 views

    • Appeal to Belief is a fallacy that has this general pattern:


      1. Most people believe that a claim, X, is true.
      2. Therefore X is true.


      This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the fact
      that many people believe a claim does not, in general, serve as evidence
      that the claim is true.

    • Paul Merrell
       
      The appeal to belief fallacy is one of IBM's most frequently deployed weapons in regard to office document format standards, perhaps most egregiously when the beliefs were manufactured from whole cloth by IBM's propaganda campaigns. For example, IBM trades heavily on the ODF Inteoperability Myth, a false belief created by an IBM disinformation campaign.
    Paul Merrell

    Fallacy: Circumstantial Ad Hominem - 0 views

    • A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy in which one attempts to
      attack a claim by asserting that the person making
      the claim is making
      it simply out of self interest. In some cases, this fallacy involves
      substituting an attack on a person's circumstances (such as the person's
      religion,
      political affiliation, ethnic background, etc.).
    • Paul Merrell
       
      As will be seen in other bookmarks, one of IBM staffers' frequently employed tactics is the circumstantial ad hominem fallacy. Often, the IBM fallacious argument takes the form of suggestions or innuendos that a speaker is biased by their employer's identity or innuendos suggesting that someone is acting in an IBM competitor's interests.
    1 - 15 of 15
    Showing 20 items per page