Update

http://www.diigo.com/annotated?gname=sandpit&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opera.com has highlights and sticky notes but group page comments are missing.

http://www.diigo.com/annotated?uid=26573&url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.evernote.com%2F2009%2F09%2F24%2Fevernote-big-windows-release has highlights and sticky notes but personal page comments are missing.

Bug

Compared with version 3.1b572 of Diigolet, version 3.1b634 (used within and without Diigo meta) is missing the interface to comments.

Ouch!

I just realised: the bug is not limited to annotated links that were created in Diigo 4.0 beta.

The bug also bites annotated links that were gained in previous versions of Diigo. So everywhere that people have published such links:

* all page comments will be invisible to the public.

Very painful :-(

Perfect example, http://bit.ly/14XloO

* published by Maggie
* comments from Joel are missing
* comments from Sean are missing.

Suggestions

Do not re-introduce the Comment button to this particular flavour of Diigolet. It is not sufficiently intuitive for people who are unfamiliar with Diigo.

Do take a sidebar approach to presentation of comments.

Sidebar at left may be appropriate for Google Sidewiki and the like, see for example
http://www.google.com/sidewiki/entry/seanabrady/id/xpBFw6cVgCtjfIT8WZ8aM76vTT4 and note that this is without installation of software; it works in WebKit-based browsers.

Do not treat Google Sidewiki or any other service as a gold standard. Bear in mind that Sidewiki can not stick notes to highlighted text.

Sidebar at right may be most appropriate for Diigo. It's normal to hang notes over the right hand edge of a sheet of paper.

(Chinese and other LTR readers, feel free to argue with Western RTL assumptions!)

Not forgetting the layout and proportions of Diigo Meta, I may be adding (pictorially) to http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/958302 sooner than I intended …

Please, can this bug gain priority? All comments are invisible!

The misunderstandings caused by invisibility are beginning to cause embarrassment.

Example: three of three comments missing from http://www.diigo.com/06pec

- annotated links such as this are viewed by members of the public, without installation of Diigo!

How can I learn the numeric ID of a group bookmark?

Related bug

Since alerts are not being received, I have absolutely no way of getting what I need :-(

Another example of a group bookmark:
http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/1013589

I know that bookmark number only because I clicked 'Comment' in the e-mail before trashing the e-mail.

I need a way of discovering those numbers, those URLs, without e-mail.

Bump!

> Not you?

No, I don't see the number.

Example: at http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ?type=bookmark I see no way to refer to a particular bookmark.

Looking inside a cookie makes me dizzy!

Only slightly less dizzying, the multiple steps described at http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F978264?tab=comment&gname=Diigo_HQ

What I really want is a simple way to refer to a bookmark.

@Diigo

Bump, please, without this feature/knowledge I can't really contribute to Diigo groups in the way that I want to.

Observation

If I follow the link to the poster's profile then click
Send Message
then Diigo may respond
Sorry, you are not allowed to send message to this user.

Suggestions

1. A join of a group by person P
should be interpreted as an allowance for the owners and moderators of that group to send messages to person P.

In other words, if person P prefers to not receive messages, that preference may be over-ridden in a group joining situation.

2. To the three current options,
Approve | Ban from this group | Ban from this group and flag as spammer
add a fourth:
    | Decline

Opting to decline should either
send a standard form of wording, or
allow the owner/moderator to enter custom wording.

http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F554063?tab=comment&uname=grahamperrin highlights the suggestion
"three strikes and you're out".

(For the moment I'm ignoring the rest of that topic. I don't remember posting it!)

Bump (I don't like to ban users, I'd prefer to decline messages).

> 2) The plone.org URL resulting from that permalink is
> http://plone.org/support/forums/plone.org#nabble-td361527|a361528

OK, weird. That resulting URL is gained only using Firefox.

If I enter the primary permalink
http://n2.nabble.com/plone.org-sprint-tp361527p361528.html
in Safari I find myself at a slightly different URL
http://plone.org/support/forums/plone.org#nabble-td361527%7Ca361528

(I'm copying from the address bars of the browsers, without confidence that this forum will represent the URLs correctly ;)

> http://www.diigo.com/annotated/378b310db219ebf09c507d2764bf036a results in error 404.

The error 404 occurs in Safari 3.1.2 (5525.20.1) _but not_ in Firefox 3.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.5.5.

Now would be a good time for me to change the subject line of this message, or this topic ;)

Subject: preconceptions of what should be at left and right

> An Apple software title challenged my preconceptions of the
> side at which annotations should appear. I'll add a reference to this subject.

First, a screen shot. Chances are, you'll think that there's something back-to-front about it:



Then, read http://n2.nabble.com/-tp2107009p2189673.html … the argument is not easy to convey in words but in essence:

- my intial reaction was disappointment, to me it looked so wrong

- after I actually used the thing, for a real task, the novel arrangement was remarkably useful.

I think Apple took a brave decision - something might look a little ugly at first glance, but that's negligible if the end result (beyond the shock of the new) is more streamlined, more productive.

Additional considerations following major upgrade to Diigo 4.0 beta:

* sidebar at left with Google Sidewiki

  — but not confusing feature set of Sidewiki with feature set of Diigo

* overlay at right with bit.ly

* footbar (for want of a better expression) in Diigo Meta

* page comments always missing from a variety of Diigolet

  — one that may be oriented to Diigo Meta, in which
    drawing of highlights and sticking of notes is logically prevented

* all annotations missing from some annotated links

  — maybe a dog food issue

* meta mixtures of public and group (sometimes private group) content

  — keyword: aggregation

http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/tag/meta?dm=middle
— http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/552239#5 in particular

http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/tag/suggestion%20AND%20Chrome
http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/tag/suggestion%20AND%20Safari
http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/tag/suggestion%20AND%20sidebar
— http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/551239#17 in particular

http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/963499#9

> Two sidebars seems dreadful to me

Similarly, two toolbars at opposite extremes of the window seemed dreadful to me when I experimented long ago with addition of both Diigo and Zotero to Firefox.

Borrowing from http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/551239#19 (sorry for the spread across multiple topics):

>> collapsible sidebars at both left and right,
>> defaulting to one of the two collapsed at any one time

- in other words, seeing only one sidebar.

> sidebar similar to Bit.ly's

Would you like the sliding across of a sidebar to:

a) overlay (obscure) the page content

b) narrow and rewrap but not zoom the page content

c) narrow and zoom but not rewrap the content?

> Expose Meta information from Diigo (and other social networks)

+1
and a UI will require careful consideration of

a) how to not confuse the reader with a mixture of public + private content

b) what may be to come

- it's good that the current 4.0 is recognisably a beta

> Provide for in sidebar capture of the page

Capture as in, 'bookmark'?

(When I first read the word, I thought you meant snapshot, but then I read your last point.)

> Add the collect flash function to the bookmarklet

Would that be different from (less fiddly than) highlighting Flash content + nearby text?

> Add the snapshot function to the bookmarklet

+1 (obviously!)
and I'll be pushing a WebArchive tag more in the future …

> keeping the UI clean and fast.

+1

> I am moving more to favor an enhanced bookmarklet
> instead of a toolbar/add in solution.

Agreed, but I'm _extremely_ wary of any enhancement that might reduce ease of use. As an example, the recently enhanced contextual menu of Diigolet is often less streamlined than in previous versions. I find myself having to move the mouse maybe twice as much as before. Ouch.

> perform the heavy lifting tasks in the main Diigo UI.

Agreed.

I think of the 'core' of Diigo as libary + network + groups

with:
* community to one side
* snapshots beneath the core
* meta above the core: between the core and the bookmarked page
* Diigolet at the forefront: ON the bookmarked page.

To my eyes:

a) no part of the core allows focus on a single bookmark
b) all parts of the core are multi-purpose for multiple bookmarks.

The absence, from the core, of a multi-purpose tool for a SINGLE bookmark
 i) means that use/positioning of features in the core is not 100% optimal;
ii) leads me to focus much attention on the potential of Diigo Meta … 

… and the absence of a sidebar from Diigo Meta brings that feature of Diigo into this topic.

Keep the arguments coming :)

Sean wrote:

> Add the snapshot function to the bookmarklet

I wrote:

> I'll be pushing a WebArchive tag more in the future …

Here goes: relating to WebArchive: http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/973032 … necessarily begins with some technobabble but I kept it fairly brief. Note that whilst I have given much thought to the WebArchive option, and it's popular with various developers, my notion of what's possible doesn't necessarily translate into something that can or should be done by Diigo team. Respecting their preference to do things (very effectively!) in their own way :)

@ Sean in particular, but open to all:

Screen shots below, Diigo Meta in various states. Consider:

a) the waste of space that comes then goes in the preview frame

and

b) the lack of space that persistently annoys (me) in the area that's used for public comments + so much (too much) else …







Question: can you imagine a sidebar appearing in that white space whilst you wait for the preview to load?

Keeping this topic fairly focused on sidebar arrangements, there's a new topic meta: present page comments in collapsible/expandable sidebar whilst preview is awaited/loading in which I imagine a sidebar (of the type that you like, bit.ly-esque) somehow within meta.

---

> very lightweight

A few months ago I toyed with the idea of a more lightweight bookmark dialogue …

http://www.diigo.com/ failing similarly, problem reported to Diigo via e-mail.

I'm not sure what was wrong, but it affected only one browser and eventually prevented Diigolet from appearing.

I cleared from Safari all cookies that contained the string
diigo
then logged in and all was fine.

Tags: resolved, worksforme

Problem recurred. For all three of the posts represented at http://pastebin.ca/1686748,

---

400 Bad Request

nginx/0.7.61

---

Again the workaround is to remove all diigo cookies then sign in.

Possible cross reference (a long shot): http://groups.diigo.com/group/Diigo_HQ/content/1106266

Still bugged by a slow script.

http://www.zotero.org/ offers version 1.0.7 of Zotero but it's for Mozilla family only. Not compatible with Internet Explorer, Safari, WebKit or Gecko-based Camino.

Re: Internet Explorer and other browsers, in January 2007 Zotero expressed a clear "No": http://www.zotero.org/support/frequently_asked_questions?rev=1169139308

In August 2008 there was reference to a future version 2.0 of Zotero with a limited web interface http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/3777/zotero-iphone/ then in September, a blog about 'Zotero 1.5 Sync Preview' http://www.zotero.org/blog/browse-your-zotero-library-online/ but the most recent FAQ continues to express a clear "No": http://www.zotero.org/support/frequently_asked_questions#will_i_be_able_to_use_zotero_with_internet_explorer_or_some_other_browser

@ Francisco, respecting your original subject line

> Integrate Zotero into Diigo

Are you happy for your topic to broadly cover all bibliographic possibilities for Diigo? (It seems so.) Or would you prefer Zotero-specific discussion here, and other possibilities in a separate topic?

(I don't doubt the value of Zotero, but I'd prefer to see Diigo take an approach that doesn't lock itself to a particular family of browsers. You offer the RefWorks example and indeed, its feature list http://www.refworks.com/content/documents/Refworks_Feature_Listing.pdf is, at a glance, much closer to universal application and possibilities of integration/interaction).

Some possible points of reference
=================================

A few months ago via IRC I listened in on biblio sprint activities, outlined at http://www.openplans.org/projects/zugod/bibliography -- if you're not into Plone, that'll be gobbledygook (much of what's there is novel to me, too) but some points of reference that I draw from that are:

Dublin Core Metadata Initiative (DCMI)
http://dublincore.org/

> > an open organization engaged in the development of interoperable
> > online metadata standards that support a broad range of purposes
> > and business models.

MARC standards
http://www.loc.gov/marc/

> > The MARC formats are standards for the representation and
> > communication of bibliographic and related information in
> > machine-readable form

OpenURL COinS: A Convention to Embed Bibliographic Metadata in HTML
http://ocoins.info/

> > COinS (ContextObjects in Spans) is a simple, ad hoc community
> > specification for publishing OpenURL references in HTML.

Software/service exemplars
==========================

In November 2006 at my place of work we considered various biblio and reference management software titles. All things considered, I could find nothing better than EndNote, but its sharing/group work features were lacklustre and EndNote Web had only just been released in the UK. A few months later,

> > EndNote Web installation [was] not compatible with EndNote 9 and
> > Microsoft Office 2004

-- specifically, the EndNote Web installation broke the EndNote CWYW installation. This evening, EndNote Web is "temporarily unavailable due to a minor system or network issue".

Francisco Padilla García wrote:

> As for browser compatibility, now that is a completely different topic.

… one that creeps or leaps into many topics!

For compatibility issues, I rule out both EndNote Web (AFAIR aspects of it were excessively Firefox-oriented) and Zotero. Other individuals/groups are welcome to pursue these avenues, but I'll respectfully count myself out.

Alternatives to Zotero and EndNote Web
======================================

I haven't used RefWorks but a very quick look around http://www.refworks.com/ is promising.

Beyond RefWorks: I have no specific suggestions, and (since November 2006) I haven't really looked.

A focus on Diigo serving this particular set of requirements
============================================================

In any case, we're not necessarily looking at integrating or interacting with any particular third party product; focus within this Diigo Community/HQ forum can be on:

1) ways in which Diigo might best serve individuals and groups who have biblio/reference management requirements.

If whilst brainstorming that, we can also:

2) consider any one or all of DCMI, MARC and OpenURL COinS

-- then we might be well on the way to Diigo compatibility with user-preferred third party products/services.

> I wish I could change the topic line

In the same vein,
http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/forum-topic-ui-feature-request-option-to-edit-the-subject-line-when-replying-7350

> Do you think I should create a new thread called: "Integrate
> Zotero-like features into Diigo"?

Nope, thanks, I just wanted to triple-check that you're happy with the broader discussion :)

Postscript: topic line edited as wished by Francisco.

= See also =

http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/citations-296 (2007-05)

Subject: highlights from a March 2008 THES report 'Read it, like it, list it, share it'

http://www.diigo.com/annotated/afd4db9f85c90ab1fc1c7fbd41fe35cd

> Academics are using social bookmarking sites to share papers and to track research

----

Subject: more past Diigo Community forum references to Zotero and the like

http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/4215 (2008-05 - 2008-08)
http://groups.diigo.com/Diigo_HQ/forum/topic/6953 (2008-10-21)

2008-11-28:

> the most recent FAQ continues to express a clear "No":

2008-12-01:

http://www.zotero.org/support/frequently_asked_questions?rev=1225208145&do=diff FAQ pages change and Zotero offer a single page dedicated to the frequently asked question about incompatibility with browsers beyond the Mozilla family.

Still, I do not rule out the possibility of
Diigo service interacting *with* Zotero *without* adding to Firefox.
To not clutter this topic: http://www.diigo.com/list/grahamperrin/zotero is my own work in progress, not all of it is public (the more nebulous thoughts, I keep to myself) but it's there for anyone who has an interest in the Zotero-oriented side of things. At the moment, nothing of real interest there.

> Dublin Core Metadata Initiative (DCMI)
> http://dublincore.org/
>
>> an open organization engaged in the development of interoperable
>> online metadata standards that support a broad range of purposes
>> and business models.

Off-topic from Diigo, but relating to DCMI:

* for Plone CMS, there's a proposal to expose and make editable Dublin Core properties.

http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fdev.plone.org%2Fold%2Fplone%2Fticket%2F9272?tab=comment&uname=grahamperrin

If you have an interest in DCMI and user interfaces, you might like to watch Plone's approach to this development.

> a case where an educator, uses Diigo's "webslides" features or
> widgets in a restricted site to display how to use subscribed
> databases. After all those features are targetted towards
> educators and they might need to show this off on Library
> subscribed databases

That's a good use case.

For a how-to showcase of that type, I might use a screencast.
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/
comes first to mind, then a few weeks ago I bookmarked
http://www.diigo.com/04pup and there are plenty of similar applications.

> display how to use subscribed databases.

Howsabout, a Diigo list in which the WebSlides option is suppressed (or discouraged)? See below…

---

Here, I have a list
http://www.diigo.com/list/grahamperrin/osaf-votes that is public, but primarily for my benefit. This list will grow (note to self: update the list) and grow and grow, periodically contract, maybe eventually disappear.

I can scroll through the long list, but I'd prefer a WebSlides view. I'd prefer to sit back and watch the show.

The vast majority of listed items are https, so caching does not occur, so WebSlides are inapplicable.

The vast majority of listed https items are public; in this case the security/encryption is (broadly speaking) for protection, not for privacy.

In Diigo lists recently I find that annotations are expanded by default (an improvement? I like it).

---

> display how to use subscribed databases.

1. For each page to appear within the how-to, create a Diigo bookmark with i) description, ii) page comments, iii) highlights and iv) sticky notes. If you like, edit the title of the bookmark to suit its future appearance within the how-to.

2. Create a Diigo list. If you like, make the list private and use its secret URL for ticketed access.

3. View the list. Title + i + ii + iii + iv make a neat how to.

4. If the viewer is particularly interested in any part of the how-to, they open that title (in a new tab or window, with or without Diigo).

---

> I'm wondering if Zotero which also archives webpages might be
> better suited for this task. It is able to capture such pages, but
> stores a local copy only. No annotation though.

> … Zotero currently lacks the annotation/sticky note capabilities
> of Diigo. Also lacking the sharing part, though i think the newer
> versions are starting to go in the sharing direction.

Zotero is interesting, I have a list on the subject
http://www.diigo.com/list/grahamperrin/zotero

Zotero does allow you to annotate, highlight text and place sticky notes. At a glance some features are comparable to Diigo:

* a highlight looks like a highlight

* a sticky note looks like a sticky note.

However: implementations are _very_ different and I do not rush to use the two services (Diigo + Zotero), in the current forms, in combination.

Regards
Graham

Nicely refined use case, thanks Aaron :)

@ Diigo

http://www.diigo.com/04pis highlights within this topic

> post code

Incidentally: if Diigo adds a rich editor to some (not all) UIs, would you prefer WYSIWYM or WYSIWYG?

This might reproduce the symptom, or something similar:

1. in Firefox, visit http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F981833%238?tab=comment&gname=viewtabs

2. within the preview frame (ignoring the Diigo meta surroundings) click http://update.microsoft.com/windowsupdate/v6/default.aspx?ln=en

---

Postscript
That example (2) does not reproduce the effect.

What probably happened on 7th October:

* click(s) within the preview frame of Diigo Meta, through to a page for which Firefox could not find a required plug-in.

Bug is reproduced by simply visiting http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F973518?tab=comment&uname=grahamperrin in Firefox,

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.5) Gecko/20091102 Firefox/3.5.5 GTB6

Source of the frame that requires the plugin is pasted to http://pastie.org/725439

Also bugged in Firefox: http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F978264?tab=comment&gname=Diigo_HQ

Also bugged in Firefox: a less specific meta view of the same bookmark:
http://www.diigo.com/bookmark/http%3A%2F%2Fgroups.diigo.com%2Fgroup%2FDiigo_HQ%2Fcontent%2F978264